What is meant by the term ELDER

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Re: What is meant by the term ELDER

Postby RMOlson » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:10 am

DV8, Looking forward to hearing her response.
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Re: What is meant by the term ELDER

Postby Bare_Truth » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:01 pm

RMOlson wrote:DV8, Looking forward to hearing her response.


I am also looking forward to what her response is and the response of the session and what ever else comes forth from the process. My interest is however not driven by mere curiosity as the course in events in my own life seems to be bringing me into a situation that is a parallel to dv8's situation. However in my situation I anticipate that acceptance of naturist activity is likely to be not so easily received as it has been in dv8's experience, to date. I am well aware that the most likely person to put me forward for any office in the church, particularly an ordained one would be highly likely to be shocked to find out that I am not a "Textile".

For all his spiritual maturity and good sense and spiritual insight he seems to only conceive of nudity as a thing done in privacy and inherently linked to sexuality other than in highly controlled situations. He seem to believe the myth that men are so visually driven that they cannot help but lust at the presence of a low cut blouse that starts to have even slight cleavage. Then again, perhaps he will find that my views if revealed are so shocking that it will cause him to re-evaluate. But also if the matter is proposed and evaluated, I could end up looking for another congregation. or another church affiliation.

So my interest in dv8's situation is more than curiosity, more than academic, and more than theoretical. But I believe that there is a credible risk that it could end up with as only amenable to an Amos 3:3 [1] resolution.

Of course I could, I suppose, decline any such proposal claiming personal reasons and just fly under the radar. In which case my family that knows might be concerned about keeping me from being outed at my funeral lest it should come back badly on them. :shock:

[1] Amos 3: 3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
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Re: What is meant by the term ELDER

Postby dv8 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:31 pm

Sorry for the long delay. My pastor has followed up with an email saying she knows of no reason why my participating in naturism ought to be a hinderance to my serving as an elder. However, she raised the possibility that I might want to share my thought with teh session, in case others there have more questions. The question of whether or not I should come to that group is yet pending.

Which brings me to "session," which is a Presbyterian term for the council of "ruling elders" - those who make administrative decisions for the congregation. These are separate from the "teaching elders," who are pastors. One congregation may have any number of "elders" worshipping together, but a specific number of ruling elders will make up the session at any given time, and for fixed-length terms. As to who would take responsibility for judging an elder to have strayed beyond their vows, my understanding is that it is first up to the individual, then the rest of the session. Differences of belief fall under the category of "Freedom of Conscience." Here is a quote from the Book Of Order:
The decision as to whether a person has departed from essentials of Reformed faith and polity is made initially by the individual concerned but ultimately becomes the responsibility of the council in which he or she is a member.

I recently watched a performance of a play at our local public university, in which a young man and woman spent the better part of five minutes nude on stage (no sex; the play was Equus). In discussions about the appropriateness of doing this at a college level, my colleagues and I concluded that the situation will differ from place to place, based on both the mores and the sensibilities of the audience. In the case of declaring oneself a naturist to one's clergy, I believe each congregation and each pastor/priest/bishop will present a unique experience based on the community - not to mention the naturist in question. I am a soft-spoken man, eager to serve and slow to anger, and so that certainly plays a part in how my message is received.
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Re: What is meant by the term ELDER

Postby New_Adventurer » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:59 pm

In my previous posting I forgot something that the Presbyterian congregations do in addition to approving a senior pastor's call and approving the budget. The congregation also approves the Nominating Committee members, and that committee makes the recommendations for Elder and Deacon candidates. When the candidates are presented to the congregation there is also an opportunity for the congregation to nominate additional candidates. To be nominated means you have already been evaluated by several people who know you, what you believe, what you stand for, and what you do.

As to disclosing your secular activities to anyone, that is your own decision. I never had to make that decision under duress but would never have hesitated to say that "Yes, I am a naturist, does that really matter?"

About five years ago, in the social hall after a regular Sunday morning service, I was listening to one visitor describing a concert he had recently played at. The band had just finished setting up on stage when a naked woman walked in and sat down in the front row. Then another, and another, and so on. He then said he was never going to play that venue again. He was talking about the Lupin Lodge in Los Gatos, California. I remained silent and later felt like a traitor. I should have spoken up and asked him what was wrong. Was he assaulted, or just caught off guard; what did he expect when agreeing to play at a nudist resort; and besides, what difference does it make what the audience is wearing.
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Re: What is meant by the term ELDER

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:31 pm

New_Adventurer wrote:About five years ago, in the social hall after a regular Sunday morning service, I was listening to one visitor describing a concert he had recently played at. The band had just finished setting up on stage when a naked woman walked in and sat down in the front row. Then another, and another, and so on. He then said he was never going to play that venue again. He was talking about the Lupin Lodge in Los Gatos, California. I remained silent and later felt like a traitor. I should have spoken up and asked him what was wrong. Was he assaulted, or just caught off guard; what did he expect when agreeing to play at a nudist resort; and besides, what difference does it make what the audience is wearing.


Well don't beat yourself up too badly. First of all if you had spoken up as you suggested you would have discredited yourself in the eyes of any textiles present and they would have called into question your morality.

In the case of someone who has been called to be considered for advancement to say that they see not problem with Nudity undercuts the argument of anyone who is a textile and had yet been a textile supporter of them to that point. and that undercuts the arguments of the textile who now hast to switch sides over a single issue which is arguably irrelevant. That forces those who suddenly switch from support to opposition over the single point of nudity that can be argued from the scripture to be NOT A SIN.
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