Lottery ?

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Re: Lottery ?

Postby natman » Tue May 21, 2013 12:45 pm

JimShedd112 wrote:I wonder, Natman and Bare_Truth, have either of you actually ever set foot inside a casino?


Yes. When I lived in Southern California, we would go to Las Vegas (I prefer "Lost Wages") a couple of times a year. I have also been to casinos in Louisiana and Mississippi. My ex-wife loved to play the slot machines, but I much preferred the Blackjack tables. I "usually" always left with a good sum of THEIR money (thousands) (The largest single bet I ever made was about $32,000, all but $20 of which was their money, which I lost.) I always limited myself to $100 or $200 loss in one trip. After that, I would not play any more.

Although I was already a Christian, it wasn't for several years before the Holy Spirit convicted me of gambling. After that, whenever we would go to a casino, my ex-wife would play the slots and I would sit some place to study my Bible and save my budgeted money to give to the Church.

JimShedd112 wrote:I work in one on the Las Vegas Strip and have for nearly 20 years now, after a lifetime of believing gambling was bad. But, it's simply another form of entertainment.


I agree. It CAN be merely another form of entertainment for SOME. However, like anything, it can be highly addicting and I know of several families that have been destroyed because one or both parents had a gambling addiction. IMHO, this is similar to drinking or anything else. It is not a problem in moderation.

JimShedd112 wrote:Casinos are highly regulated, particularly in Nevada, where prostitution is also legal in rural counties, based upon population size. Prostitution is illegal in Clark County (Southern Nevada and the home of Las Vegas) and up north where Reno is located.


I am aware that prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas. However, the legality of prostitution has been a very small deterrent. I have been propositioned while in Las Vegas and have seen women hanging around "high-rollers" in some of the casinos there and elsewhere. I am sure that if they are discovered, they would be escorted out by security, however, there almost ALWAYS seemed to be a presence. The issue isn't what is going on INSIDE the casinos. It is what seems to develop in the communities AROUND the casinos.
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby jochanaan » Tue May 21, 2013 1:52 pm

One of my Christian brothers used to buy one lottery ticket per month, "just in case God wants me to win the lottery." :) If kept within strict limits like this, this is probably no sin. But I would be cautious about giving any support to an industry that makes much of its profit from less-than-wealthy, gullible people, thus adding further to the US' already dangerous wealth concentration.

Also, we tend to equate money with power. "If I had a certain number of dollars, I could do such-and-such for God!" But God owns "the cattle on a thousand hills", and poverty is no obstacle for His work. Perhaps He wants us to rethink our sense of scale.

And one more thing: The most effective ministries are still the ones focusing on face time. If our ministries get too big, they tend to lose personal contacts.
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby natman » Tue May 21, 2013 3:20 pm

jochanaan wrote:One of my Christian brothers used to buy one lottery ticket per month, "just in case God wants me to win the lottery." :) If kept within strict limits like this, this is probably no sin. But I would be cautious about giving any support to an industry that makes much of its profit from less-than-wealthy, gullible people, thus adding further to the US' already dangerous wealth concentration.


I agree. Unfortunately, the ones who seem to spend the most on lottery tickets (at least around here) are the ones who can least afford to lose the money.

jochanaan wrote:Also, we tend to equate money with power. "If I had a certain number of dollars, I could do such-and-such for God!" But God owns "the cattle on a thousand hills"....


But the cattle on the 1001st hill is all mine, mine, mine. :lol: :lol: :lol:
(A little jab for my "millennialist" friends.) :D

jochanaan wrote:Perhaps He wants us to rethink our sense of scale.

And one more thing: The most effective ministries are still the ones focusing on face time. If our ministries get too big, they tend to lose personal contacts.


I agree. My wife and I are struggling with this very issue in our current church. They are wanting to do a multi-multi-million dollar expansion of the facilities while there are needy in and around the church. We would personally prefer to see the money spent to minister to the needy and to build mission churches than to expand a single facility which is not currently being 100% utilized. To their credit, the church has proliferated about twenty mission churches over the years, and we have a new one and several dependent churches presently. But still!
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby jochanaan » Tue May 21, 2013 8:26 pm

natman wrote:...We would personally prefer to see the money spent to minister to the needy and to build mission churches than to expand a single facility which is not currently being 100% utilized...
Yes. "Pray globally; minister locally." :D
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby christian84 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:59 pm

I say it's a shame to throw that much money out the window with the hope that you will be the one to win the prize that we all crave .
Playing the lottery is rather an expression of mismanagement of the resources God has given us .
From this perspective, I think it's a sin to waste the money that God has given us .
As Christians , we all have a responsibility to the resources that God has given us .
Spending money on lottery means you send through God that we are trying our means to make our future and we are not willing to wait for his blessing.


It is so important attitude we have towards life.
We must recognize that all we have and all that we are comes from God , so that we have a responsibility for the management of those resources .
A good admninistrator is one who dispels the gathering .
Lottery game is rather a means to dissipate the resources God has given us .


On the other hand , which she received in November of God is that we do not have patience for him, and I found a shortcut, a way to enrich the night with minimal effort .
I believe that this attitude is wrong.
Therefore I would urge all those who read these thoughts to trust in God and he will.
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby Bare_Truth » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:57 pm

JimShedd112 wrote:I wonder, Natman and Bare_Truth, have either of you actually ever set foot inside a casino? ....

Jim,
I hope you won't take this the wrong way because I understand that there are different points of view. and some people have aversions to things that others find acceptable or enjoy.

My early years as a child were not particularly rich in religious education, yet some how, (call me weird if you like), during those years I developed an aversion to engaging in actions in order to obtain that which was not mine and for which I did not give a comparably valued quid pro quo. I had no desire to play marbles on the playground for "Keepsies". I would play marbles, but not that way! I liked the ones I had and even if somebody else had a really nice one, that was theirs, not mine. So even that form of gambling seemed repulsive and nonsensical to me. Of course I got called a "scaredy cat".

To answer you question directly, No I have never been in a Casino. Nor would I want to. If I went in to partake of the entertainment, the shows the food, the accommodations, all at very low prices, I feel that I would be exploiting them because their reduced rates on those things are aimed at drawing in customers for the gambling. I would feel that I was cheating them. (I did say call me weird didn't I ? About now would be an appropriate time if anyone is so motivated :wink: ) Why should I go into a place like that to partake of the freebies when I have no intention of making a return to them in the manner they are hoping for.

I have never gone into a brothel either. There is nothing in there that I want or am willing to pay for on their terms.

There are a lot of places I have not gone because I do not like or have no interest in what is there.

Does that mean that I believe that everyone who goes into a Casino is a sinner or evil? No! But I am pretty sure that is not the wisest thing they have ever done.

In any case there is nothing there for me. I am turned off by glitz. I am turned off by most of what passes for music in such places. I am turned off by crowds and I detest being encouraged to take actions based on emotion instead of rational logical thought. And by the way, you can add to that list, "Altar Calls" and "Charismatic's emotional carryings on".

Oh!, and by the way, I am not an emotional dead fish! I can be very passionate about some things, maybe too passionate sometimes!

I suppose that there are those who might wonder how God ever called me. That is OK, I have wondered too, but with Him all things are possible.

I could go on, but by this time I think you get the point that I am a somewhat different person that many. It is a characteristic common among us Aspies (discussed elsewhere in my posts). I admit that I often have a hard time understanding other peoples motivations and it has taken me quite some time to figure out that they have the same problem with me. I fit right in as a college professor since students seem to have all been warned that some of their professors will be eccentric and there were several of us who did not seem to disappoint that expectation. I have often wondered why God made me the way that he did but I got the point of Isaiah 29;16 that the clay ought not to speak to the master potter negatively.

So perhaps I should close with "Different Strokes for Different Folks" and "No Offence Intended"

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Re: Lottery ?

Postby Petros » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:22 am

Bare_Truth:

I quite agree on the casino, but I have been in one - guest of a relative then in Las Vegas, and Herself does not have the same problems but - like natman's ex - enjoys the slots up to a point.

Let me mention that in my field there is no such shelter for the mils Aspie professor - eccentricity is to be sure expected, but I never had the right eccentricity.
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby JimShedd112 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:12 am

Bare_Truth, I just had the opportunity to read your reply to my query whether you had ever entered a casino. First, no offense taken. I grew up with an aversion to gambling and still don't do so a lot (if and when I play I play on nickel machines occasionally). My wife does enjoy playing far more than I do and has invested a fair amount, sometimes winning fairly well while usually leaving far more behind. We're fortunate enough to have saved and paid all our debts and are mostly debt-free besides one vehicle we purchased interest free and the normal bills for food, utilities, and such and can live quite comfortably.

Because many (not all) of the entertainment venues in Las Vegas are linked to the casinos we do go out to movies, dining, etc in the casinos and often leave without ever spending even a cent on gambling and don't feel guilty at all, even if taking advantage of 2-for-1 meals, reduced movie prices for senior or other discounts, etc. Believe me, the casinos wil not suffer if you use the other venues and don't play at the tables or machines within the casinos.

I respect your points of view and respect your decisions NOT to engage in gambling as long as you respect the rights of others to do so.

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Re: Lottery ?

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:18 am

JimShedd112 wrote:...I respect your points of view and respect your decisions NOT to engage in gambling as long as you respect the rights of others to do so.

Jim


Jim,

It begs the question, what does it mean to respect someone's decision to do what I have come to believe is not wise, even harmful?

If I saw you smoking a cigarette, I would not snatch it out of your mouth and stomp it on the ground, but if I have earned the right to be your friend, I might say (only once), "Have you ever thought about quitting? And if so, may I help you in that endeavor?".

Would I be a friend if I kept entirely silent about such things? (no)
Would I be a friend if I constantly nagged you? (no)
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby Jon-Marc » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:46 pm

I don't know if God disapproves of playing the lottery, but He does say not to "strive for riches". However, we're not striving for riches if we claim His promise in Matthew 7:7, "Ask, and it shall be given you." However, I'm not convinced that verse includes asking for money. I play $2 per month on the lottery, one on the Mega Lotto and one on the Super Lotto, when I go to do my grocery shopping. If it's God's will for me to win, one dollar is enough. If it's not His will for me to win, then I could play $1,000 (if I had it) and not win. Everything in a Christian's life should be according to God's will and not our own. Sometimes He will let us have what we want just to teach us a lesson.

Scripture states that God made Solomon rich because he DIDN'T ask for riches. I've won small amounts of money, but nothing of significance or enough to get excited about. That tells me that it isn't wrong to play the lottery; otherwise, I would never win anything--not even a free lotto ticket. The small wins encourage me to keep playing and hoping God will have pity on me and give me all six numbers. He could give me just the first five in the Mega Lotto, which would give me $1,000,000--probably before taxes. Still, that would allow me to get out of debt (I only owe about $1,400). I will be paying off two of those and keeping only one with a limit of only $750 to use for emergencies. I can get by on just my retirement income. However, I would like to have either a park model instead of this 24-year-old fifth wheel, or my own property with a real house--preferably the latter.

There are only two reasons I live in a nudist resort. (1) I can be nude all the time unless I leave the resort, or if it's too cold. (2) It's all I can afford.

If I had the money, I would prefer to have some acreage and a real house with insulation (which RV's don't have with 2 1/2 inch walls). The air conditioner blows my circuit breaker during the summer, and the furnace runs continually during the winter in a losing battle of trying to keep it warm in an RV. If you live in an RV, living where there's more cold than heat is not a good idea. The desert, even in California, is more cold than heat. We have maybe 3-4 months of weather warm enough to be nude, with occasional warm days the rest of the year.
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby Bare_Truth » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:20 am

Jon-Marc wrote:.....the furnace runs continually during the winter in a losing battle of trying to keep it warm in an RV. .....
Just a suggestion that might work for you. Some sort of lamp that allows you to aim the light, especially a goose neck floor lamp into which you can insert a 250 watt heat lamp bulb. One often finds these heat lamp bulbs in bathroom "heata-lightta-ventilator" ceiling units. I specified such units for my bathrooms when we remodled. But the bulbs can be used in in pretty much any lamp that can accept a standard screw base bulb and does not have parts that will melt (e.g. plastic parts around bulb). The built in reflector in the heat bulb allows you to aim the heat and if you can position it to aim where you are sitting you can be comfortable in an otherwise cool room. And 250 watts is not all that expensive. I haunted the thrift stores when I wanted a goose neck floor lamp and after about a year I had one I liked.

The wattage is not all that much but the reason it is a good heat source is because you aim it at you and it keep you warm not the whole room. These are the same bulbs that are used in many food warmers.

Just an aside about those heat lamps. Since the spectrum of the light is fairly rich in the red color frequency they do not wipe out your night vision when you get up at night. It helps avoid stumbling on the way back to the bedroom when you get up to pee at 2:00 am.
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby Petros » Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:22 am

What kind fuel you are heating with? And what are your electrical rates like?

My "cabin" the outer office, not so much used since we took over what had been the mil quarters as work space, but still useful on occasion [I was working out there today, with the outside in the 20s and windy], is about 11 x 20 built into our big pole shed. Stud thickness insulation, concrete 3 inches from the uninsulated floor.

It gets an assist from being on the sunny side on a sunny day like today [summer it is leaf shaded which helps]. But it heats with one [last week] or two [this week] oil filled radiator space heaters. Run at medium, on a day like today it it is not bad temps - not for working nude at that setting in our area, but it beats the office I shared in London - uninsulated drafty high ceilinged cavern "heated" by an electric device about the size and caloric capacity of a 1940's toaster, and I do NOT mean pop up.
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby JimShedd112 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:12 am

Sorry, Ramblinman, I just saw your question about respecting others' rights. I'd say you've got it about right with the cigarette analogy. You certainly have the right to believe gambling is wrong and I'd say you have the right to say so to others, if asked. However, unless you see a person who is clearly addicted to gambling (yes, it can be an addiction just like many other so-called vices) I think you must respect their right(s) to do as they choose unless illegal or leading to hardship for their families.

I certainly am opposed to gambling away money needed to provide for one's spouse and children and to pay their debts. However, I don't believe recreational gambling is any more harmful than the tobacco products and alcoholic beverages I abhor. If abused, all can lead to ruin in some form.

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Re: Lottery ?

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:18 pm

JimShedd112 wrote:Sorry, Ramblinman, I just saw your question about respecting others' rights. I'd say you've got it about right with the cigarette analogy. You certainly have the right to believe gambling is wrong and I'd say you have the right to say so to others, if asked. However, unless you see a person who is clearly addicted to gambling (yes, it can be an addiction just like many other so-called vices) I think you must respect their right(s) to do as they choose unless illegal or leading to hardship for their families.

I certainly am opposed to gambling away money needed to provide for one's spouse and children and to pay their debts. However, I don't believe recreational gambling is any more harmful than the tobacco products and alcoholic beverages I abhor. If abused, all can lead to ruin in some form.

Jim


Jim, that's what I meant: I don't have to be supportive of a decision in order to support your right to make up your own mind.
In my granddad's day, they had speakeasies where liquor and gambling were conducted in back rooms.

One of his cousins made a lot of money running moonshine in a fast car.
He was a farmer with a family to raise in hard times. My great grandparents did not approve of the bootlegging, but they sent their kids to help with the cousins' tobacco crop, picking suckers in the fields, hoeing weeds and such. The child field hands were fed while working for the cousins and their parents not only got to keep the money their children earned, but didn't have to feed the kids for a month or two every summer.

Our country cousins never went hungry, there was always some greens, biscuits, cornbread, corn, beans, squash or tomatoes to eat. And often chicken on Sunday.

Our folks disagreed with the bootlegging, but blood is thicker than water and no one said a word to the law. When you have kids to feed you can let them go hungry or send them to work for a cousin who is not perfect, but a good provider. By the way, they made sure the kids were never involved in the liquor in any way. Today we know more about the hazards of smoking and chewing tobacco, but it has historically been both legal and honorable to raise tobacco as a crop. I would not want to do that in this day and age.

Addictive behavior can take several forms. My great grandfather had troubles in this area and it took a few days in the gutter to wake up, realize he needed help with both cards and liquor. Our family had a still on the farm until prohibition was enacted.

I think we have all put a few coins in a machine to see what will happen, but anything more than that is a terrible waste of money.
If I were at a casino, I would rather pay to see a singer or eat supper at the buffet table. That I can enjoy.
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Re: Lottery ?

Postby New_Adventurer » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:46 pm

The lottery, and gambling in general, is a tax on the mathematically illiterate. Put your play money in the collection plate instead.
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