Ok, So which is harder???

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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby Bare_Truth » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:42 am

jochanaan wrote:.... But in my experience, old conditioning writes a programming loop in many folks' minds that, until they know it's there and why it's there, keeps them from examining what the Bible says, and doesn't say, about social nudity. Their thoughts about us get "stuck in the loop" to where what we say doesn't even register at any deep level.

Indeed. is it not that way with the bulk of of all ism's, religious or not!

The thing that makes it so maddening is that religion is supposed to be about the ultimate truth. I think the problem is that in the pursuit of "The Ultimate Truth" we are so eager to believe that we have found it. That anything that threatens what we believe about it, is regarded as an ultimate threat! Then we go into ultimate defense mode to protect what we think we have.

I fully expect that when we finally come face to face with God, one of the most frequent comments by those who have truly sought to yield to him is going to be; "Oh! Is that what you meant?"; myself included :!:
I never met anyone that I could not learn something from.
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby Ramblinman » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:44 am

Jochanaan,
Speaking for myself, even when I my textilism was at its most extreme, I would still listen respectfully to someone's argument from scripture, even if I drew a different conclusion.

The Church is in grave danger if its parishioners go on feelings alone, go solely on what Pastor Gantry says.
Yes there is danger if we no longer privately consult scripture for answers, and not only that, consult them using sound principles of exegesis.

In those days I may have been annoyed by a nudist perspective, but I found it helpful to examine their argument in light of scripture.

If we can teach our younger brothers and sisters in the Lord to put on the whole armor of God, it would inadvertently lead to greater openness to including naturism in the Christian life, because part of the whole armor of God involves reading the Bible with objectivity and with cultural context. They are sheep for the slaughter without such protection.

Surely many of us have folks under our tutelage as a function of our leadership in our church and our positions as family patriarchs, community leaders and as the wise old neighbor they talk to over the back yard fence.
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby jochanaan » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:17 am

Ramblinman wrote:Jochanaan,
...The Church is in grave danger if its parishioners go on feelings alone, go solely on what Pastor Gantry says....

The Church is in grave danger, indeed. :( (I like your Upton Sinclair reference! :D )
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby jochanaan » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:18 am

Bare_Truth wrote:...I fully expect that when we finally come face to face with God, one of the most frequent comments by those who have truly sought to yield to him is going to be; "Oh! Is that what you meant?"; myself included :!:

Oh, I look forward to that!! :D
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby vycna » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:29 pm

It is interesting to think about which is easier. I don't have enough anecdotes to decide, but what I see is there is reasonable possibility either way, though what I have seen is non-Christians led to trying nudism, and non-nudists led to Christ. I think either will be easier than leading either Christian or nudist to start a with a process toward being vegetarian, even with any amount of basis to share for that, and a great deal can be shown. Too many dismiss it from their minds as too radical a change, even though I see change to nudism overcoming morbid fear of nakedness that is widespread, and turning one's whole life around in repentance surrendering to Christ, seeking God's will, and see those changes as more likely. So far, anyway.
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby nakedpreacher » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:26 pm

I find it easy to share my faith with nudists. Of course "what do you do? I'm a pastor." is always an easy lead in. it is usually followed by "oh really, how did you become a nudist? although even when a guy replied "well I'm an Atheist" I Still got a chance to share Christ with his Girlfriend. I think that the key is "be ready to give an answer when men ask the reason for the hope that is in you, WITH GENTLENESS AND RESPECT."
If, when we judged others, our real motive was to destroy evil; we should look for evil where it is certain to be found, and that is in our own hearts. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby MoNatureMan » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:49 pm

Also to consider are groups inside the groups.
For simplicity lets say there are 2 types of nudists. The more family value orientated and the swinger groups.
From my experience the family oriented nudist is more open to Christianity than the swinger group, who are more interested in the sexual freedom of their group.

In Christianity, the ones that see the Bible as 'The Word of God', should be more open than the groups that just follow whatever they are told.

So for what it is worth, I think that 'Family Value Orientated Nudists' are equally open to the Gospel as 'Bible Believing Christians' to social nudism.

Ron :cross:
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby Petros » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:13 am

"In Christianity, the ones that see the Bible as 'The Word of God', should be more open than the groups that just follow whatever they are told."

Not all who "see the Bible as 'The Word of God" search the scriptures in any meaningful way.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby vycna » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:04 pm

I think it could be said that there are enough people who see the Bible as the Word of God and trust their church leaders to share all that would be available from studying the Bible rather than do so for themselves. I know I might have wound up that way myself, but it was long time ago before I was seeing examples of this, and when I was new to the faith I felt extremely ignorant of Christian knowledge that other believers would know, and i made a practice that I kept up for almost all of a long time since to read and study the Bible often. This is what there is for believers to do.
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby Ramblinman » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:11 am

MoNatureMan wrote:Also to consider are groups inside the groups.
For simplicity lets say there are 2 types of nudists. The more family value orientated and the swinger groups.
From my experience the family oriented nudist is more open to Christianity than the swinger group, who are more interested in the sexual freedom of their group.
Ron :cross:

Ron, the swingers are not nudists, just naked people who sometimes usurp nudist venues.
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby jochanaan » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:59 am

I have been in groups and come across printed materials that encourage you to "search the Scriptures"--and then give you a list of Scriptures to search, implying that those Scriptures and only those Scriptures are worth searching, because they support the beliefs and practices the church supports. :roll:
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby DaveT » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:53 pm

I think most of the time such arrangements are intended to get someone started. It's easy to look at such a large book as the bible and be intimidated, not know where to start. Although I know the start that's provided sometimes is a one sided approach. Have to take everything the scriptures say on a given subject, look at it all together and put it in context as well, in order to get a balanced view. Many church doctrines are based on a few verses that seem to agree with tradition, while ignoring several that say something entirely different, putting the others into their original context. Word meanings and how words were used in ancient times don't come to us easily sometimes. Since we use the same words and understand them a bit different.

As for the original question. I think it varies according to circumstance. The elderly woman I talk to quite often, (70's) who is dead against naturism, not even willing to listen to reason on it. I had decided it was useless discussing it with her. But for some reason the subject arose again recently, I didn't intentionally introduce it, some really logical common sense illustrations came to my mind and I was finally able to get somewhere with her.
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby New_Adventurer » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:23 pm

The Church is in grave danger, indeed. :( (I like your Upton Sinclair reference! :D )


Oops, it is not Upton Sinclair, it is Harry Sinclair Lewis. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Lewis
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby jochanaan » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:43 pm

New_Adventurer wrote:
The Church is in grave danger, indeed. :( (I like your Upton Sinclair reference! :D )


Oops, it is not Upton Sinclair, it is Harry Sinclair Lewis. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Lewis
So it is. My error. :oops:
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Re: Ok, So which is harder???

Postby Petros » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:40 pm

You were in error.

You have now confessed.

Have you repented?
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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