Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Petros » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:23 am

True enough - not forgetting, however, that refraining until the signal comes, teste Saul, is also a work,. They also serve who only stand and wait
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby jochanaan » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:10 am

natman wrote:
jochanaan wrote:Bare truth, that is my understanding also: not that we should cease doing good works including observing regular days of rest, worship and celebration, but that our relationship with God consists rather of His loving, saving grace towards us without any works on our part. :)


Another slight detour down the rabbit holes of life... I would add, "... Without any 'required' works on our part."

Although we are saved by grace and not by works, James tells us that "faith WITHOUT works is a dead faith." (James 2). Therefore, just as Jesus presented an example to us, we will WANT to do good works, even on the Sabbath, out of respect and love for our great Lord and Savior.
Point well taken. But such works are, or should be, the natural result of our love for God, through the Holy Spirit's presence in us--not a prerequisite of any kind. Too many folks put the "cart" of our works before the "horse" of God's work of grace.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby prairieboy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:13 am

Maverick wrote:Another thing I sometimes hear is that "Jesus observed the Passover with the disciples, so we should observe Passover too." Is that logical? I have a hard time rationalizing this, especially since Jesus fulfilled the law upon His death, when the veil was torn in two; he had the Last Supper with the disciples before His death.


We have a different "Lamb" to remember, which we do every time that we "eat the bread and drink the cup". I believe that Jesus observed the Passover a day early that time.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Petros » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:54 am

We should not forget the amendment to the Passover as it passed from Pesach to Pascha: Do this in remembrance of me.

We cannot commemorate the Passion and Resurrection without being reminded if the Passover - but it is a new thing.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Ramblinman » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:23 am

Petros wrote:We should not forget the amendment to the Passover as it passed from Pesach to Pascha: Do this in remembrance of me.

We cannot commemorate the Passion and Resurrection without being reminded if the Passover - but it is a new thing.

It is remarkable how the old foreshadowed that which was to come.
The Hebrew children had Christ-like figures in Adam, Enoch, Noah, Noah's Ark,Melchizedek, Abraham and Isaac, Elijah,King David, and Passover.
Wow! I know that many still were taken aback by Messiah's arrival, but a few spotted his arrival right away.
In John the Baptist's case, he knew of Messiah in utero, yet had moments of doubt as a grown man.
Jesus did not rebuke him for his weakness, but comforted him and assured him that he was Messiah.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Maverick » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:04 pm

Petros wrote:We should not forget the amendment to the Passover as it passed from Pesach to Pascha: Do this in remembrance of me.

We cannot commemorate the Passion and Resurrection without being reminded if the Passover - but it is a new thing.


We Baptists do that and call it Communion, but is that the same thing as the Passover feast? I've participated in the Seder once before but I don't think that's what Jesus and His disciples did together, was it?

prairieboy wrote:
Maverick wrote:Another thing I sometimes hear is that "Jesus observed the Passover with the disciples, so we should observe Passover too." Is that logical? I have a hard time rationalizing this, especially since Jesus fulfilled the law upon His death, when the veil was torn in two; he had the Last Supper with the disciples before His death.


We have a different "Lamb" to remember, which we do every time that we "eat the bread and drink the cup". I believe that Jesus observed the Passover a day early that time.


That's what I thought too--at least that different groups in Israel observed the Passover at different times or days.

Bare_Truth wrote:It would appear that the JFB position is much more in tune with:
Quoting Jesus in Chapter 2: Mark wrote: 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

I.e. the sabbath was made for the benefit of mankind not for mankind to have a work to do to maintain the sabbath.


Bare_Truth, I like your analysis there! There is a lot of truth in that verse, which ties back to what you and others have expressed about mankind benefiting from a day of rest.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Petros » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:17 pm

Interesting point - I recently realized - the bread broken - one of the three matzoth on the plate.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Bare_Truth » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:40 am

In terms of the foreshadowing of the Old Testament there is certainly more than just the Passover foreshadowing to be seen in the Old Testament. If one reviews the 7 annual Holy Convocations (KJV wording) In Leviticus 23. and the foreshdowing may be seen both in terms of the whole of Christianity and the growth of the individual Christian

A short synopsis (the detailed version would be too long to fit here, and other interpretations may vary on details):

#1 Passover
The sacrifice of the firstborn echoing the willingness to sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham, and the loss of the egyptian first born and the offering of innocent lambs/kids And the death of Christ for our sins

#2 7 Days of Unleavened bread (sometimes called the "Passover season" but not to be confused with the singular act of the Passover which preceeds it)
Seven, (the number of completeness) days of putting away unleaven (representing rejecting sin), and also the time of fleeing from Egypt (also representing pleasures of sin which is an oppression) Representing spiritual maturing and fully rejecting sin

#3 Feast of Weeks, Shavouth, Pentecost
Echoing the giving of the law at Mount Sinai, and the giving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and the individual receiving the Holy spirit at Baptism,

#4 Feast of Trumpets Ross Hoshanna
The arrival of Messiah, the Coming of Christ at the last Trump, the Arrival End of the Age

#5 Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur
The binding and isolation of Satan from God's people The beginning of the end of Satan,(Rev 20:1-2), two goats One sacrificed for the sins, the other credited for the sins and taken away from the people into the desolate wilderness to be forever separated from the People of God (Lev 16:15-22)

#6 Feast of Tabernacles, Succoth
7 days signifying complete rejoicing and a time of fullness and joy, a time of the millennium without the presence and influence of Satan, A time of joy for the people of God.

#7
The 8th day, the Last Great Day (John7:37 terminology)
The Final time of judgement of those committed to sin and following Satan (the rest of the dead and final time for Satan Rev 20:5-7)
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby jochanaan » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:06 pm

Maverick wrote:...We Baptists do that and call it Communion, but is that the same thing as the Passover feast? I've participated in the Seder once before but I don't think that's what Jesus and His disciples did together, was it?...
It was. "And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat." --Luke 22:8 But most churches no longer do the full Passover seder, although some have resumed the tradition while others do it in home settings.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Ramblinman » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:33 pm

jochanaan wrote:
Maverick wrote:...We Baptists do that and call it Communion, but is that the same thing as the Passover feast? I've participated in the Seder once before but I don't think that's what Jesus and His disciples did together, was it?...
It was. "And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat." --Luke 22:8 But most churches no longer do the full Passover seder, although some have resumed the tradition while others do it in home settings.


I have used the Haggadah
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby jochanaan » Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:32 pm

Ramblinman wrote:
jochanaan wrote:
Maverick wrote:...We Baptists do that and call it Communion, but is that the same thing as the Passover feast? I've participated in the Seder once before but I don't think that's what Jesus and His disciples did together, was it?...
It was. "And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat." --Luke 22:8 But most churches no longer do the full Passover seder, although some have resumed the tradition while others do it in home settings.


I have used the Haggadah
Orthodox, or Messianic? Most of the seders I've done have used haggadahs edited both to shorten the telling and to bring out the Messianic connections.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Ramblinman » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:05 pm

jochanaan wrote:Orthodox, or Messianic? Most of the seders I've done have used haggadahs edited both to shorten the telling and to bring out the Messianic connections.


It was Messianic. I have Jewish roots on one side of the family, but we love Jesus as Messiah, Lord and Savior!
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby natman » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:51 am

The church we used to attend would do a seder every year at Easter. The symbols almost ALL point to the coming Messiah and the bitter-sweetness of His death, burial and resurrection. I wish MORE churches would do the same.
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby jochanaan » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:07 pm

natman wrote:...I wish MORE churches would do the same.
Yes. :like:
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Re: Days and months and seasons and years--oh my!

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:24 am

natman wrote:The church we used to attend would do a seder every year at Easter. The symbols almost ALL point to the coming Messiah and the bitter-sweetness of His death, burial and resurrection. I wish MORE churches would do the same.

Passover seder is so rich with news of the coming Messiah!
We also celebrate his second coming, a bit in advance.
Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
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