Christus Natus Est

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Christus Natus Est

Postby Petros » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:34 pm



Alleluia!
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby JimShedd112 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:43 pm

Beautiful. Merry Christmas to you and yours, Petros, and to all here at CNV.

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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby Maverick » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:52 pm

Gloria in excelsis Deo! (That's about the extent of my Latin.) Merry Christmas to all.
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby Petros » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:36 am

I shouldn't say it [as son of two Classicists with a moderate amount of Latin and Greek under my belt], but you do not need a whole lot more than that.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:56 am

Petros wrote:I shouldn't say it [as son of two Classicists with a moderate amount of Latin and Greek under my belt], but you do not need a whole lot more than that.

Interesting that the title of your topic is in Latin, but the song is in German.
Two more Latin songs that English speakers would be blessed to add to their songbag:
Adeste Fidelis
Dona Nobis Pacem

Biblical Greek has crept into our language: Christ comes from Greek for anointed.

Amen and Hallelujah: two Hebrew words most English-speaking Christians use.
Last edited by Ramblinman on Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby naturaldon » Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:42 am

Happy Christ's birthday everyone. May we all honor the King this day.
-Don
He must increase, but I must decrease. (John 3:30)
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby Maverick » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:22 pm

Ramblinman wrote:Biblical Greek has crept into our language: Christ comes from Greek for anointed.


And I learned this Christmas season that the X in Xmas actually comes from the Greek word Χριστός (Christos), so Xmas is just a shortened form of Christmas. No one's taking the Christ out of Christmas!
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby JimShedd112 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:26 am

Thanks Maverick. I always assumed it was to shorten the word Christmas.

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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:24 am

Maverick wrote:
Ramblinman wrote:Biblical Greek has crept into our language: Christ comes from Greek for anointed.


And I learned this Christmas season that the X in Xmas actually comes from the Greek word Χριστός (Christos), so Xmas is just a shortened form of Christmas. No one's taking the Christ out of Christmas!

And the "mas" in Christmas is short for "mass", referring to the body of Christ, who is present in our worship.
Christ can no more be taken out of Christmas than white on rice. He will not forsake us.
What does concern me is the mas(s) divorced from Christmas, that is the people forsaking their God at Christmas and any time.
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby balaam » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:56 am

Those in churches who follow a lectionary will know we are now in Advent, a time for preparation not just for Christmas, but also preparation for Christ to come again.

That seems like a good excuse to resurrect this strip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE6BzoMt0Ro O come O come, Emmanuel in the original Latin.
Fearfully and wonderfully mad
Love the dinner, hate the din.
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby Ramblinman » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:09 pm

The Church was born in the eastern Mediterranean portion of the Roman Empire, where Koine Greek was the common language and for centuries the language of worship as well.
As it moved to Rome, local churches were founded among Latin speakers.
So to aid understanding, Latin became the language of worship in the western part of the Empire and eventually the entire Church throughout the Empire, even in Greek-speaking areas due to the proclaimed primacy of the bishop of Rome, over all other bishops.
Oddly the power of inertia, resisted the change to worship services in German, English, French, etc, forgetting the original reason for the shift to Latin.
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby balaam » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:21 am

I chose the Latin version not to hide the meaning of the words , they can easily be Googled,

I found a lot of English translations of the words also had modern (post 17th Century) arrangements of the music. I prefer the haunting beauty of plainsong for this song.

Rejoice, Emmanuel will come to us.
Fearfully and wonderfully mad
Love the dinner, hate the din.
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:17 pm

balaam wrote:I chose the Latin version not to hide the meaning of the words , they can easily be Googled,

I found a lot of English translations of the words also had modern (post 17th Century) arrangements of the music. I prefer the haunting beauty of plainsong for this song.

Rejoice, Emmanuel will come to us.

The Church resisted translation because it would tempt the laity to read the Bible for themselves and possibly find doctrinal error in the clergy.
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby bn2bnude » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:33 pm

Ramblinman wrote:
balaam wrote:I chose the Latin version not to hide the meaning of the words , they can easily be Googled,

I found a lot of English translations of the words also had modern (post 17th Century) arrangements of the music. I prefer the haunting beauty of plainsong for this song.

Rejoice, Emmanuel will come to us.

The Church resisted translation because it would tempt the laity to read the Bible for themselves and possibly find doctrinal error in the clergy.

It may be that but I'd heard that it was because:
1) Not all that many people could read
2) Books (or scrolls) were expensive and something only the elite could afford.
3) The concern about errors in doctrine was more the non-scholarly reader misinterpreting scripture.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Christus Natus Est

Postby Ramblinman » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:05 am

bn2bnude wrote:It may be that but I'd heard that it was because:
1) Not all that many people could read
2) Books (or scrolls) were expensive and something only the elite could afford.

The obvious response to these arguments is that the Church changed the language of the liturgy from Koine Greek to Latin despite those issues, so...
why not change the language to the lingua franca yet again?
bn2bnude wrote:3) The concern about errors in doctrine was more the non-scholarly reader misinterpreting scripture.

Now that is a distinct possibility, but errors in doctrine emerged from official channels as well as laity.
We can and should look back with reverence at the Protestant Reformation, but some of the doctrines that emerged were far from the truth.
But it was a movement in departure from some heinous Catholic doctrine, some of which Rome itself has repudiated.
Through it all, the Holy Spirit has been leading individuals and small groups beyond these failings.
I am also grateful for the efforts of Reverend Isley Boone, but on reading his biography, some of his actions do not fully reflect Christian charity and maturity.
Yet, most here would agree that overall, good came from this very imperfect vessel.
Chstus Natus Est, now more than ever!
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