Just a touch

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Just a touch

Postby Petros » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:22 am

I have occasionally mentioned my associate Aram -we had a long talk yesteday, my phone ran out of juice.

Recently he went for a simple massage, not something I would do in CA but it was a gift. Straightforward enough - but gradually he realized the masseuse/masseur was a M>F conversion or wannabe and was enjoying it perhasps too obviously.

He feels unclean, wondering if he should go back and raise a fuss - not I think wise in CA in 2017, if he has been violated.

I'm advising him to hold back, rember he was not an active participant, that it seemas to have been wholly mental in the imagination for the operator, and pray - including praying for the operator [anybody giving massagers in CA needs prayer, I think]. And we are praying for him to get past this.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Just a touch

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:49 am

Petros wrote:I have occasionally mentioned my associate Aram -we had a long talk yesteday, my phone ran out of juice.

Recently he went for a simple massage, not something I would do in CA but it was a gift. Straightforward enough - but gradually he realized the masseuse/masseur was a M>F conversion or wannabe and was enjoying it perhasps too obviously.

He feels unclean, wondering if he should go back and raise a fuss - not I think wise in CA in 2017, if he has been violated.

I'm advising him to hold back, rember he was not an active participant, that it seemas to have been wholly mental in the imagination for the operator, and pray - including praying for the operator [anybody giving massagers in CA needs prayer, I think]. And we are praying for him to get past this.


Perhaps Aram was so upset because he did not immediately stop the masseur when the session strayed from professional touch into inappropriate intimate sexual touch.
He gave in, however briefly, to homosexual feelings. This was a sin, but not unpardonable and does not doom Aram to a downward spiral into gay identity.
The Bible makes it clear that those who repent of sexual immorality, including homosexual behavior, are forgiven.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. I Corinthians 6:11
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Re: Just a touch

Postby JimShedd112 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:08 am

Perhaps there was no inappropriate touching, as assumed by you Ramblinman. Perhaps there was simply an obvious erection on the part of the masseuse. But, I agree Aram should not overreact to the situation.

Jim
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Re: Just a touch

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:27 pm

JimShedd112 wrote:Perhaps there was no inappropriate touching, as assumed by you Ramblinman. Perhaps there was simply an obvious erection on the part of the masseuse. But, I agree Aram should not overreact to the situation.

Jim

Jim,
I assume a lot of stuff all day long and some of it you can take to the bank and some of it is worth less than a plug nickel.
I have worked with a gay guy a time or two.
It may take some getting used to if you haven't seen that sort of person before.
But here's what worked for me:
Be polite and respectful and mind my own business.
That doesn't mean that I approve of homosexual behavior, but unless I am in a position of trust and friendship and in a quiet setting, you don't advance the Christian world view by untimely words in a public setting.
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Re: Just a touch

Postby Petros » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:07 am

In point of fact, he had said a few things in the jocular flirtatious style one can adopt as a social grace, to which HE did not respond.

Then SHE seemed inordinately gratified by his left leg, which made him unconfortable. He swears there was no inapproopriate touch, just an inappropriate reaction, and that led him to look HER up.
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Re: Just a touch

Postby JimShedd112 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:26 am

I agree with you Ramblinman and, yes, I deal with homosexual coworkers (women, by chance) and guests. I agree, the best approach is to treat the person as a person without undue reaction toward them.

Jim
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Re: Just a touch

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:05 pm

Petros wrote:In point of fact, he had said a few things in the jocular flirtatious style one can adopt as a social grace, to which HE did not respond.

Then SHE seemed inordinately gratified by his left leg, which made him unconfortable. He swears there was no inapproopriate touch, just an inappropriate reaction, and that led him to look HER up.

Regardless of orientation of the massage-provider, inappropriate comments are unprofessional.
I would not feel that I had done anything to cause it; that is blaming the victim.
I might get up from the table right then and there, say, "Your comments are inappropriate and unprofessional; this session has just ended".
Then one would get dressed and leave without paying of course. (realizing that this was a gift session in this particular case).

If Arom lacks the courage to say that, it would be a shame, because the masseur will think that it is open season on future patients for sexual come-ons or at least unwelcome intimate comments.
You'd think the guy would have learned etiquette and boundaries of propriety in massage school unless it is one of those red light district massage parlors.
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Re: Just a touch

Postby New_Adventurer » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:59 pm

I have had numerous massages in California and a few in Oregon, Washington, and Arizona. Straight massages with no hanky-panky. I did have an interesting encounter on the BART train one evening. I got on and sat down and after a few minutes I realized the guy next to me was blind. Then his hand started to wander onto my leg. I spoke up and said I was a BART employee and the BART Police are vigorous in responding to assault cases against employees. He yanked his hand back, sat bolt upright, and acted like a statue the remainder of the trip. It was almost funny.
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Re: Just a touch

Postby jochanaan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Ramblinman wrote:Regardless of orientation of the massage-provider, inappropriate comments are unprofessional.
I would not feel that I had done anything to cause it; that is blaming the victim.
I might get up from the table right then and there, say, "Your comments are inappropriate and unprofessional; this session has just ended".
Then one would get dressed and leave without paying of course. (realizing that this was a gift session in this particular case).

If Arom lacks the courage to say that, it would be a shame, because the masseur will think that it is open season on future patients for sexual come-ons or at least unwelcome intimate comments.
You'd think the guy would have learned etiquette and boundaries of propriety in massage school unless it is one of those red light district massage parlors.
I'm with Ramblinman: no matter the sexual orientation of the masseur/masseuse, if he's straying into sexualizing the experience, he has no business doing massage. "[M]assage is a healing art and not a sexual technique." (George Downing and Anne Kent Rice, The Massage Book)
You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
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