Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

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Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby Bare_Truth » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:03 am

This is a spin off topic from another strip so as not to hijack that strip.

From my investigations, the special significance of the Tetragrammaton and the Jewish suppression of pronouncing it, which has left us with some doubts as to what its phonetic sound is truly supposed to be is still with us today with some "Sacred Name" groups making a core doctrinal matter to always say Yahweh and Yeshuah, and scholars contesting that either pronunciations of YHVH are inaccurate or unknown.

In tracing such things I have picked up that stories based on the cabala or cabalistic view point suggest that among some rabbis the name was treated in the same manner that pagans treated the secret names of dragons and demons in which if one knows the secret name of a spirit being that it gives one magical powers over the supernatural being to be able to force that being to do one's bidding. or at least expropriate iits powers. I cannot think of anything so biblically abhorent as believing that there is any way for any human to command God to do anything.

Of course this whole matter can seem to be questionably linked to the meaning and import of the verse in Revelation
Rev 2:17 ......To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

I see no problem if out of a sense of respect that some choose to try to use the most accurate pronunciation of names from the Bible, in so far as they can reconstruct them, but at the same time I can find no basis to insist that one should insist that such precision is required. Treating anyone's name respectifully seems to be a cross cultural constant. However, what constitutes such respect does vary culture to culture, and what is considered as being friendly in one culture is regarded as being arrogant, disrespectful or an attempt to dominate in another.

There are even some who object to the use of "God" claiming that it a Pagan name and therefore insulting to the Diety. My own research into the matter has indicated that the word "God" in its most ancient forms means essentially "the one who is to be entreated". And if one examines what is said at: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=God is:
Old English god "supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person," from Proto-Germanic *guthan (source also of Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Dutch god, Old High German got, German Gott, Old Norse guð, Gothic guþ), from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (source also of Old Church Slavonic zovo "to call," Sanskrit huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke." .....
. And that seems to comport well with what I have searched out previously.

If in one's own language and in ones demeanor the English Word "God" or alternatively for a German speaker "Gott" is used in the sense of "the one who is to be entreated" then I see no problem. After all the creation of all the languages is attributed to God, (Genesis 11:1-9).
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby bn2bnude » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:58 am

There are several people I've heard that suggest the following (with the 3 minute video example - because of the videoing it's a little creepy but...).

YHWH is the Jewish name for God. The original pronunciation was lost many centuries ago, but it was likely Yahweh – the same sounds we make when breathing in and out and therefore the first and last thing each of us will say. Could the daily whisper of our breath also be a gentle calling to God, who first breathed that breath into us? A still, small voice from God speaking to us via our own mouth saying: “Acknowledge me in this moment.”


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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby Jim » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:32 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:... some "Sacred Name" groups making a core doctrinal matter to always say Yahweh and Yeshuah, and scholars contesting that either pronunciations of YHVH are inaccurate or unknown.


And don't forget the more widely known Jehovah's Witnesses. I often sidetrack their conversations by talking about using the name "Yahweh" rather than "Jehovah".

Taking the Bible literally, it says to call on the name of God in many places. I agree this is just a way of saying call on God, but find it worshipful to use the proper name he gave us the best we can.
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby Petros » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:21 am

It is interesting:

I think - not properly checked yet - most monotheists either have no name for the God [saying "the God" does not count] or if they have a name avoid using it. In fact, many polytheists - though there are exceptions aplenty - have no name for the Top God, only things like "the great spirit"

Judaism may be a notable exception - BUT

A. In time they make the name ineffable

B. Thanks to its being recorded by a prople with vowel-free writing we do not KNOW its pronunciation, though we may guess - and I have - but there is every likelihood that what the Supreme presents as His name - not, note, a GIVEN name - is actually a description itself.
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby natman » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:12 am

bn2bnude wrote:
YHWH is the Jewish name for God. The original pronunciation was lost many centuries ago, but it was likely Yahweh – the same sounds we make when breathing in and out and therefore the first and last thing each of us will say. Could the daily whisper of our breath also be a gentle calling to God, who first breathed that breath into us? A still, small voice from God speaking to us via our own mouth saying: “Acknowledge me in this moment.”

I have never heard it explained like that, but that is a VERY COOL notion.

That means that I am calling on the Lord approximately 24,000 times a day.

That aside, it was my understanding the name of the God was a conjunction of the Hebrew words for "I" ("Ye") and "Am" ("Hayah").
SON-cerely,
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby Maverick » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:51 pm

natman wrote:That aside, it was my understanding the name of the God was a conjunction of the Hebrew words for "I" ("Ye") and "Am" ("Hayah").


I've heard that too. I've also heard that Jews considered the name so holy that whenever they read the OT they would say "Baruch ha-Shem" (blessed be the Name) whenever they came across YHWH.
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby bn2bnude » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:40 pm

Maverick wrote:
natman wrote:That aside, it was my understanding the name of the God was a conjunction of the Hebrew words for "I" ("Ye") and "Am" ("Hayah").


I've heard that too. I've also heard that Jews considered the name so holy that whenever they read the OT they would say "Baruch ha-Shem" (blessed be the Name) whenever they came across YHWH.

I heard this for a long time as well, recently, I had heard that the name substitution came into general use during the Exile and inter-testamental period. I'd provide a reference if I knew where I heard it.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby Jim » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 pm

Maverick wrote: I've also heard that Jews considered the name so holy that whenever they read the OT they would say "Baruch ha-Shem" (blessed be the Name) whenever they came across YHWH.

I've read they substituted "Adonai" or Lord. The vowels from this attached to the consonants YHWH produce "Jehovah."
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby jochanaan » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:25 pm

In modern Messianic services, "Adonai" is indeed spoken in place of the Name. Many seem to feel that it's better not to pronounce the Name than to say it badly. Yet the blessing in Numbers 6 instructs God's people to say His Name over the ones being blessed...

But Our Lord Jesus/Y'shua called Him Abba/Father. :)
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby jay_p » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:01 pm

It is a common thing among many cultures that to know something's TRUE name is to give you power over it.
But this also comes from the idea that a true name is less a "social identifier" and more a description of nature.
If you know something (or someone's) true name you know them intimately. You are aware of their very nature and they are laid bare to you.
To give someone your true name is to give yourself totally to the other.
While we may call God by name, or a name, I am not sure we call God by "his true name". In fact I am not sure you can. To fully describe God is beyond Human ability. To attempt to do so is to place ourselves alongside God as his equal. The names we have for God are but small facets of his infinite. God the Father, God the son, The holy spirit. The creator. The holy one .. etc etc..

God not only knows OUR name he knows the name of All the Stars of the Universe. (about 1*10^24 stars) give or take a factor of 10.
To think we can truly name God is beyond Hubris. I think giving God the name "I AM" is about as close as we can get.
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby natman » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:30 pm

jochanaan wrote:Our Lord Jesus/Y'shua called Him Abba/Father. :)


Yes, but "Abba" ("Father") is not a name, but rather a title. The same is true for "Adonai" ("Lord") and "Elohim" ("God").

As mentioned, we ARE instructed to call on the "Name of the Lord", which may be hard to do. However, our Lord KNOWS our shortcomings in this regard and KNOWS Whose Name we are calling upon, even if we grossly mispronounce it.
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Re: Thoughts on the Use of the Name of God

Postby Petros » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:14 am

Of course, as things go, calling on the name of and acting or believing in the name of does not necessarily involve a given name. And any name is merely a noun - nomen - pointing out of /to whom/what we speak.
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