Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:20 pm

jasenj1 wrote:I suspect one could donate land to one of these Trusts with a stipulation that the land allow naturist use - and then the org might place signs at entry points. Such an arrangement would still have to worry about people being seen from adjoining property.


Ramblinman wrote:Again, no one needs to ask the government what we should wear when we are unseen on our own private property.


jasenj1 wrote:But when donated to a Trust the land is no longer "our own private property". It belongs to the Trust. The Trust administrators may choose to call the police if people are reported nude on the property. Part of giving the land to the Trust could stipulate that the trustee (I forget the legal term for the entity that administers the trust) NOT report/prosecute nude people and even place signage that nude people may be encountered on the property. Then if someone was on the property and complained to police about nude people, the police could say, "the owner (the Trust) doesn't care. Leave the property and you won't have to see naked people anymore."


Jasen, thanks for clarifying the fact that this is not a single owner with a deed that allows nudity.

However, I am finding it hard to envision a circumstance in which the Trust administrators would welcome a constant barrage of trespassers, (naked or clothed) onto Trust land. It would be a liability nightmare for the Trustees.
So, can we assume that there would be a gatekeeper on visitation days to allow only authorized guests of the Trust?
That the land would be posted on all sides, warning against trespassers?
And only trespassers would "accidentally" wander onto the land?
And since it is private land completely out of sight of adjacent landowners (thanks to shrubbery and privacy fencing), that there could be no possibility of public nudity?
I am still left with the conclusion that there is no need for a clause that allows nudity, since only trespassers who ignore all trespassing signs and press their way through the bushes to a portion of the property where there is 100% expectation of privacy, just as it would be for someone bathing in a creek well off a trail on National Forest land.
The only other persons who could see nudity would be those who were lawfully admitted by a guard at the gate on visitation days after a background check and release form were signed.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby baresoul » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:49 pm

I have the idea that there could be a land trust arranged for a community among the nature in its area that will continue with sustainable living there. Others have spoken of such living that I have heard, and it really seems there could be nudist Christians in a community together doing this, with godliness that such sustainable living which is called for would really be consistent. It is too bad few Christians are seeing this. Time will change that, but I wouldn't want to wait for it to be too late for that, when such sustainable ways of living are really needed in this world now, and actually plenty of the people should come to such. There will be land tax for those owning land to do such things. But those with a valid land trust, which I believe can be arranged for things like this, where a way of living is to be preserved, and with protection of the environments provided in that, won't have land tax to worry about, with none there holding ownership of land.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby jasenj1 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:45 am

Ramblinman wrote:However, I am finding it hard to envision a circumstance in which the Trust administrators would welcome a constant barrage of trespassers, (naked or clothed) onto Trust land. It would be a liability nightmare for the Trustees.

The Trust I am most familiar with (which is not saying much) is BLT. They manage numerous plots of land. At least one of the plots has trails, benches, and even a couple ponds where people are known to swim. It is a popular place for people to walk & jog. There is signage at the trailheads telling about the land.

Some of the properties have this on their web page: "This conservation restriction on privately-owned land is not open for public access." Which implies to me that many of the parcels are open for public access. And, yes, I don't know how the whole "privately-owned" thing works with a Trust. It appears BLT helped get the conservation restriction, but the deed is held by other people. Thus BT's call for lawyers. :)

I believe the popular clothing optional destination Orient Land Trust is a real "Trust" that allows the public to use the land.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:38 pm

We have a couple of farms in the metro area that converted to passive-use parks as the owners aged out of them and sold them to the county for use as park space.
It certainly would be nice to see one of them set aside some of that acreage for mandatory nudity.
It might attract a bad crowd without a strong police presence and mandatory nudity.
It would be helpful if a naturist group monitored it as well, but they couldn't possibly provide the staffing to keep visitors safe unless you had fulltime caretakers and maybe even execute background checks prior to admitting visitors.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby Bare_Truth » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:45 am

Ramblinman, you raise an interesting concept, but I wonder if many or any municipalities would support it. Maybe in Florida or California, where there is support for naturism, but the unruly element in society would likely spoil the possibility.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby baresoul » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:00 pm

Ramblinman wrote:We have a couple of farms in the metro area that converted to passive-use parks as the owners aged out of them and sold them to the county for use as park space.
It certainly would be nice to see one of them set aside some of that acreage for mandatory nudity.
It might attract a bad crowd without a strong police presence and mandatory nudity.
It would be helpful if a naturist group monitored it as well, but they couldn't possibly provide the staffing to keep visitors safe unless you had fulltime caretakers and maybe even execute background checks prior to admitting visitors.


I don't know that any space can be set aside for legally mandatory nudity. I can imagine society developing to where there are accessible spaces where that will be an option. But it would take privately owned land where access is with permission that there could be the condition of required nudity. I don't think it could ever change to mandatory nudity in public areas. I don't want to be nude at all times myself, just now with the current weather I do really want to be nude. But when it will be cold I will want warm clothes. I couldn't stand requirement to be nude then.

I yet think of the land trusts as being most useful on open lands, outside of cities. Contrary to the desire of many to have owned property, this could serve those who would live a very sustainable life in such a place with a land trust, without concern there for property taxes. I think of this desirability that much that I think of really promoting it now.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:35 pm

Baresoul,

Some beaches in Europe have mandatory nudity and are NOT clothing optional. You MUST be nude to go there.
And my nudist camp forbids clothing of any kind within the fence around the swimming pool as well as the pool itself.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby baresoul » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:52 pm

Ramblinman wrote:Baresoul,
Some beaches in Europe have mandatory nudity and are NOT clothing optional. You MUST be nude to go there.
And my nudist camp forbids clothing of any kind within the fence around the swimming pool as well as the pool itself.


I understand about pools, certainly, this is a common approach on nudist grounds, and I would have an arrangement like that with any swimming spot on grounds that I would be involved in managing. When it would be really cold, hardly any will want to go swimming. But that is still hard for me to understand for applying to whole beaches over there. What happens if it is uncomfortably cold there? People there stay nude anyway? Or is the whole coast kept deserted by the regulation?
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby JimShedd112 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:57 am

Baresoul, you seem to believe a swimsuit is somehow going to insulate one from the cold. Have you looked at the swimsuits Europeans typically wear? They are skimpy and the wet material would only help to retain versus expel the cold, I think.

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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby baresoul » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:26 am

JimShedd112 wrote:Baresoul, you seem to believe a swimsuit is somehow going to insulate one from the cold. Have you looked at the swimsuits Europeans typically wear? They are skimpy and the wet material would only help to retain versus expel the cold, I think.

Jim


Not at all. But have you not known that people like to stroll along a beach, or hike, even on a cool day, when they are just in clothes and don't change in to a swimsuit just to do so? Some do this walking their dog. Walking along the coast does not entail that they go swimming. Even when I have been at the beach, I often just didn't go into the water. Why should people coming for that be excluded?
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby JimShedd112 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:36 am

Point made. Sorry, I made the wrong assumption. I agree, there is far more to do than swim at the beach and I would assume required nudity applies only when the weather is conducive to going nude, whether swimming or not.

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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:03 am

baresoul wrote:
JimShedd112 wrote:Baresoul, you seem to believe a swimsuit is somehow going to insulate one from the cold. Have you looked at the swimsuits Europeans typically wear? They are skimpy and the wet material would only help to retain versus expel the cold, I think.

Jim


Not at all. But have you not known that people like to stroll along a beach, or hike, even on a cool day, when they are just in clothes and don't change in to a swimsuit just to do so? Some do this walking their dog. Walking along the coast does not entail that they go swimming. Even when I have been at the beach, I often just didn't go into the water. Why should people coming for that be excluded?

Why? Because until nudity is common-place, it needs protection from ruffians who sexualize it, blatant voyeurs and to encourage the timid by creating a nude-only climate where clothed people can never be the majority.

For beaches where winter is an issue, the nudity policy can be seasonal. However, some people use portable wind screens when they sunbathe to extend the season a bit when the sun is warm, but wind can still chill.

At my naturist camp, the water areas are always nudity mandatory because the pool is covered at night and in use well into October, and the hot tubs are more comfortable in winter than summer. Another place I visit covers their pool in a sort of greenhouse, open in summer and closed panels in winter and heated. I have even been to a nudity-mandatory event when the temperature was far below freezing: it was a health club that was reserved for nudists one night a month in winter. In those situations, there is never a need for clothing for warmth.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby New_Adventurer » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:16 pm

So what if it is cold? Many times in the winter I walk out to my hot tub in freezing temperatures or cold rain and have a plesant time in my hot tub, although I sometimes wear a hat to keep my face dry. Many years ago I also went to my club one cold rainy day just so I could lie on the grass and feel the rain; then I made a quick trip to the hot tub.

I can have fun in any weather.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby baresoul » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:54 pm

New_Adventurer wrote:So what if it is cold? Many times in the winter I walk out to my hot tub in freezing temperatures or cold rain and have a plesant time in my hot tub, although I sometimes wear a hat to keep my face dry. Many years ago I also went to my club one cold rainy day just so I could lie on the grass and feel the rain; then I made a quick trip to the hot tub.
I can have fun in any weather.


Good for you. I am not at all against nudity, and I agree for swimming and being in the water, enforcing nude use as a requirement makes sense. But not all can handle being nude in colder weather, so requiring it everywhere else (outdoors, I don't speak of use of indoor swimming pools and activities) for all people all the time doesn't make sense to me. You could handle it, I for one can't handle it being cold frankly. And catching a cold might not kill you. With my serious breathing issue, catching a bad cold could kill me in a matter of some amount of time.
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Re: Naturist Land Trusts - Is There A Lawyer in the house?

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:34 am

Baresoul,

I felt a cold coming on: stiff achy neck, tonsils puffing up a bit, sinus drip and went into a sauna for several good long sessions (with cool-down time in between).
The next morning, all symptoms were gone!
A friend told me that this sauna visit had created an artificial fever and destroyed the cold virus before it had a toehold on me and I believe she was right.
I don't recommend it once you have a fever, but when symptoms first start, you might have a chance to nip it in the bud.

Some of my ancestors come from Finland and through the ages, they picked up some good know-how which we sophisticated modern folks would do well to listen to.
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