Let us turn it around

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Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:26 am

Reasons NOT to be nude.

There is of course thermal protection - chill air, diving in cold water.

Contrast, however, Inuit pretty much clothed out ofg doors year round with the Yahgan nude year round in less than temperate Tierra del Fuego.



Then there is protection fron sunburn, at least for us low melanin types. But this is not a clear determiner - compare Sumerians, skirted but topless, with Babylonian Semites in the same environment.





Protection of the skin - from insects [those skeeters in Michigan], from
thorns [picking raspberries], from the effectsa of sizzling bacon, or if you are petros from certain textures, from weapons [felt armor to teflon vests.]

These are worthy reasoins, all rather seasonal / situational. I am not convinced any of thjem couild jusify wearing textiles the majority of one's life.

Avoidance of legal consequences - from community standards and laws on what may be exposed whenm to "no shoes, no shirt, no service" - which policy just seems mean.

Concealment of a less than perfect body OR enhancement of one's lool\ks by the conventions of time and locale.

Declaration of status or group affiliation, from uniforms and vestmernts to head ties that give notice of one's availability or otherwise or significant armbands

Of that set of reasons, I resent some, I comply with some our of prudence.

At this stage in my life [the statement would have been somewhat different in 1960, 1980, 2000] I wear clothes as much as I do for three reasons.

A. Thermal in the Wisconsin winter. I am no Yahgan, I do not plan to shovel snow uninsulated.

B. Legal - I cannot expect to drive into town or welcome guests here au naturel without consequences and ramifications

C. Herself's issues - I can sit here in my office at the right time of the day as God designed me [plus socks and glasses, bith necessary, I fear], but I cannot so walk into the kitchen with Herself present Yesterday she came urgently downstairs, perturbed because all her underwear wasa in the laundry bin [fresh washed] and she had to dash in an envolepoping robe.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Bare_Truth » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:17 am

Interesting analysis worthy of more discussion but:
Petros wrote: I can sit here in my office at the right time of the day as God designed me, plus socks and glasses, [both necessary, I fear],
Suffering from less than perfect vision, I get the glasses part, but the socks part eludes me unless you are sticken with poor peripheral circulation and inadequate warmth in that region. If that is the case you might consider placing a heating pad (available at your local drug store etc.) and placing you feet on that. You might find it therapeutic as well as palliative.

But I digress. I would much eager to see this strip discuss how society might be different yet functional with a greatly reduced reliance on textiles. One improvement I see would be a greater egalitarianism and less dominance, and a suppression of the concept that "clothes make the man" (which they do not since clothes in that respect are merely a lying substitute for the righteous character that we need).
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:10 am

The Quakers and Amish did not get very far convincing society that the laws regulating which class got to dress how [like freshmen and uipperclassmen in the univerrsity not that long ago] should be undone. Some Pharisees LIKED to be obviously spiritual, rich, respectable, with it, etc.

The socks I need not merely because I have quite sensitive soles [my soul, would YOU were so sensitive] - quite a few tactile issues - but also because barefoot more than a certain period I get pains and other bad sensations in my feet, especially the left, mostly toes. That may tie to circulation or be nerve connected, or a bit of both. Either way, the minimal pressure of socks helps. As does reiki performed from time to time by herself.

I have a good heating pad which I use in the outer office in winter [floor only a few inches separated from concrere slab] - but that is a different issue.

We have in this great nation come a long way, baby, and Herself and I can walk around town in costumes which would have appalled our great greats [and possibly provoked jealousy]. But we are far from logical consistency, when a banker on a hot summer day cannot dress at his desk as he would with perrfct assurance do at the beach.

Unfortunateloy the greenest are going to be the ones who MOST insist on costumes and customs that preclude turning off th AC and opening a window.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby jochanaan » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:53 am

Some of you say, "It is the north wind who has woven the clothes we wear."

And I say, Ay, it was the north wind.

But shame was his loom, and the softening of the sinews was his thread.

And when his work was done he laughed in the forest.
--Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet
Some of my experiences as a nudist have convinced me that we need far less protection from the wind, weather, and even Earth's surface than we think we do. I do most of my cooking in the nude when I can, even bacon, without damage. In 2007 at CNC/Midwest, the weather was unseasonably cool and rainy yet I was able to go nude much of the time. Once at a Colorado hot spring in February I tested myself in 20-degree weather and was able to be outside, nude, for a good five minutes. And our friend Desert Hiker has told me his feet are tough enough to go barefoot on trails, even rocky trails, without damage. I'm convinced that most of us, with a little practice, could build up similar calluses and toughness. 8)

That leaves social reasons to wear clothes. And here all the logic--I mean ALL of it--is on our "side." The textiles only have traditions and jargon and fears of social disintegration, which we are able to show for the lies they are--if they'll listen and look. :roll:
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:43 pm

BUT - they have the media and the market. At least until the looms slow and Fruit of the Loom and Dior turn to high end sun screen and body paint.

Five minutes in Jan, especially on a still sunny day, I could deal with. Snow blowing the drive with a serious cross wind is very tough on well-gloved fingers, though.

And given my sole sensitivity, I have to wonder how long they would take to harden.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:46 pm

" And here all the logic--I mean ALL of it--is on our "side.""

LOGIC?

In the media? In politics? In the market? In fashion?

In any case. logic falls and fails if there be no agreement on premises and rules of engagement.
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:05 am

One does wonder. We are a diverse race, and that not by accident.

We know - certainly I know well - that among us are some, not a few, who brought up in an unquestioning textile environment have a deep hankering for nudity, who see a scantily clad or nude person their own age in an illuisration and feel a pang of envy, who begin experimenting early and wind up with an abiding urge to strip when practicable.

Simple logic says, that there should be some others, who, if brought up in a clothing optional environment, would from an early age seek out opportunities to cover up. I cannot but wonder whether Herself might nolt be one such. If it is not "body image" [which it might be] or early traumatization [which it might be], it could be inbred.

I am - clearly have been since before I can remember, since the day I am reported to have wandered off with my sister and was found a block orf so away, sitting on the curb strippingf [it was not reported that she was, knowing her I doubt it - more comfortable with less.

Herself is more comfortable well wrapped.

A former sil was apparently equally at ease in either state, with no preference other than situational./
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby jochanaan » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:19 pm

Petros wrote:One does wonder. We are a diverse race, and that not by accident.

We know - certainly I know well - that among us are some, not a few, who brought up in an unquestioning textile environment have a deep hankering for nudity, who see a scantily clad or nude person their own age in an illuisration and feel a pang of envy, who begin experimenting early and wind up with an abiding urge to strip when practicable.

Simple logic says, that there should be some others, who, if brought up in a clothing optional environment, would from an early age seek out opportunities to cover up. I cannot but wonder whether Herself might nolt be one such. If it is not "body image" [which it might be] or early traumatization [which it might be], it could be inbred.

I am - clearly have been since before I can remember, since the day I am reported to have wandered off with my sister and was found a block orf so away, sitting on the curb strippingf [it was not reported that she was, knowing her I doubt it - more comfortable with less.

Herself is more comfortable well wrapped.

A former sil was apparently equally at ease in either state, with no preference other than situational./
Is that nature, nurture, or trauma? I tend to suspect that the hunger for clothes-freedom is in all of us, to greater or lesser degrees. A parallel might be our sexuality. The sex drive is in all of us--but some of us express it only in healthy ways, some in unhealthy ones; some few refuse to acknowledge it at all; and a very few become nymphomaniacs or victims of some other clinical disorder...
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:14 am

For Herself, I doubt nurture. Wee Coryl, with much more probability of counterbody nurture, is much more open to exposure, though never noticeably nudeinclined. For Herself, I suspect nature [which includes a strong vein of self-deprecation which is going to effect body image] combined with some known trauma.
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Bare_Truth » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:31 am

Well, now, if we are going to get into nature versus nurture in the matter of textile versus nude. There are certain aspects of the genders that are probably a matter of nature. I feel that a good case can be made for nature in the feminine gender of humans. The female of the species is GENERALLY
-- more lightly built
-- of lesser stature
-- of lesser physical strength
-- socially of greater complexity
-- of gentler disposition
-- mentally more complex and intuitive (even the brain is markedly different)
-- more sensitive to emotion in others
-- use a broader scope of more complex communication
-- etc?
I theorize that these characteristics align well with the needs of child rearing, particularly in the care and nurture in the early years. But being less physically powerful and imposing they are highly inclined to secrecy. Secrecy is the counterbalance of the physically weak against the strong. Did you ever know a woman who did not like to keep secrets? (I speak in generalities). Textiles provide secrecy, provide modes of social communication,(how many men do you know that dress with considerable concern for their moods).

As for men GENERALLY and their attire, a simple practicality seems to prevail, along with an attitude of "I am what I am". So if clothing is not really necessary it is more easily rejected as an unnecessary complication. If maximum cooling is not really necessary but there is need of protecting delicate parts from abrasion a simple loin cloth will suffice, or perhaps a penis gourd may offer an opportunity for a bit of bragging. Self promotion in the form of bragging can be also seen in shoulder padding and styling of suits to make the individual look bigger and stronger and hence more physically imposing which are characteristics of the guardians of the territory and the families, and in peaceful times providers of food and shelter via heavy labor.

And here we start to bring in the nurture factor. In our society once textiles become functional along gender lines, then we are inclined to promote them in our children in ways that will make them more successful within society. When, however, our society has become altogether too complex and the complexity becomes burdensome we rebel and we strip and go naked. But that is so opposite to the pressures of society that the community as a whole insists we do so in special areas set aside for that. Clothing becomes a big deal, only when society makes it so, otherwise it is a simple matter of practicality.

Here endeth my daily ramble. I have run it up the flag pole! Let the saluting and/or shooting begin.
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:15 am

-- socially of greater complexity

Oooh - I likes that one.



"-- of gentler disposition"

"Did you ever know a woman who did not like to keep secrets?"

Your oft repeated "in general" saves me from waxing sarcastically argumentative with counterexamples [though I will mention that between me and Herself I am the naturally secretive one] But we will fly with most of this granted "in general"

One might add one - hinted at in your "simple practicality" attributed to the male - arguably "in general" a more developed aesthetic, increasing the probability that even in mainly nude groups the female will be more decorated - paint, tattoos, piercings. jewellery, etc - than the male, though the young male can do a good job.

But the drive to distinguish the chief from the many and our patriotic troopps from the vicious enemy whose village they are raiding to steal women and cattle is also likely, I would say, to be nature, and that is very much a male trait.

Of course the two combine to ensure that the Big Chief's Prime Wife outshines in various modes of decoration the third and final wife of the potter with the game ledg.
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby vycna » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:40 pm

Petros wrote:Then there is protection fron sunburn, at least for us low melanin types. But this is not a clear determiner - compare Sumerians, skirted but topless, with Babylonian Semites in the same environment.

Avoidance of legal consequences - from community standards and laws on what may be exposed whenm to "no shoes, no shirt, no service" - which policy just seems mean.


I have read that Sumerians were referred to as being dark. In any case they were a completely different group than the Semites, which included Babylonians.

It seems the list included legal reasons twice. The No Shirt No Shoes No Service signs, which in fact are not always policy, not always observed, where such signs are placed, and also the signs not actually with all establishments, are indeed mean just as it was stated, and very insulting, they indeed have a history of being derived from racist signs which became illegal. Prohibiting those who were shirtless, while with going barefoot was a frequent appearance for hippies who faced the discrimination decades ago, still remains motivating some possibly to use to keep women from coming to places while topless, where they might do so for promoting their claim for equal rights, if in another place other than where they already have the right for that, except for such an establishment keeping any from being shirtless there.
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:58 pm

Sumerians are indeed seriously different from Semites in genetic makeup as well as language. They may have been swarhy, but they tend to show up pretty pale in self portraits like that reproduced [the Akkadian archerrs are painted darker in face, and certainly they were some brand of caucasoid, not any of the high melanin groups of Africa, Australkia, parts of Asia.

On no shoes no shirt - I was saddened and amused when our bank posted a policy - no wearing of ski masks or hoods or dark glasses when in the bank, in theory in a move to foil robbers. Okay, in January I can happily lower my hood on coming into the warm bank - but my father, who in his latter years wore shades to protect his ever more sensitive eyes would have been out of luck.

As if, in any case, a person entering the bank to rob it would bother to remove his ski mask or pay attention to the "no guns" or "please do not cough on the tellers" signs.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Let us turn it around

Postby Petros » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:09 pm

After talking about the "no shopes no shirt no service" and related policies, I came across this. Had to post it.

The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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