Cur Ipsissima Vestita

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Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby Petros » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:09 pm

Yes, a takeoff on Cur Deus Homo, which is a different question.

As we by know know well, Herself is definitely bothered by nudity - the sight or the mention or the mere idea renders her uncomfortable. An important fact in our coexistence. She knows my history, my tastes, occasionally mentions it in passing, probably knows or assumes that I indulge myself when the opportunity arises. But no way will she focus on it,

At one point I assumed it was brought into existence by par exemple her brother choosing to expose himself to her. Sensitive teen, jerky brother, trauma, hence phobia.

But again I think - what if it is congenital? I am around the outer fringes, perhaps not in orbit but within the gravitational field of the Asperger spectrum. I have my issues and sensitivities, my failure to get many social cues from non-Aspies. Among them: in my office somewhere is an old snap of me hugging my sister Maureen. NOT my idea. We do not have issues, but I am NOT comfortable hugging [there is a REALLY small list where I am okay with hugging]. The babysitter insisted, adults rule, protest was useful. But the incident is still uncomfortable. Pretty much the same with shaking hands - I DO it, mainly with strangers, especially Africans - but it is HARD.

My Aspoid traits make that sort of contact, like people reaching and touching my knee, just HARD.

Herself is like me fringe Aspie, though very different in detail. Part of why we work well, I susoect. We know that spectrals may have issues with tight clothing, or problems with loose clothing. We are both loose garment people. But what if her neural setup inherently hates nudity, as mine prefers it?
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby Ramblinman » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:41 pm

Imagine an alternate universe where you and Herself grew up among these people.
Apart from some paint and beads, no one wears anything, nor will the jungle climate permit it.
How can you miss something foreign to your experience: clothes? And flashing would be impossible. How can one "flash" whilst living naked to all?

This aversion to bare skin is learned behavior and would only develop in a culture where clothing was available.
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Re: Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby Petros » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:41 am

There are various opinings about causations of the Spectrum. It has only been known a relatively short time - thank God, as I have indicated my mother would have had me medicated or institutionalized or analyzed had it been a known thing. The possibility exists that it is recent. If there are data on frequency outside the citified [I cannt quite say civilized] West, I know them not.

But if it is not a recent phenomenon, then there will be sensitivities and traits. It may be that among the Dinka, we might not find full fledged gymnophobia, there might not be a lot or Aleut nudity maximizers.

But I don't think we know enough to rule categorically that Herself's movements or mine are cultural artifacts.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby Bare_Truth » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:03 am

Petros wrote:There are various opinings about causations of the Spectrum. It has only been known a relatively short time - thank God,
Well you did say "relatively", though during my lifetime it has always been known even if not widely known. Dr. Hans Asperger described the syndrome back in the 1940's. I would advise anyone who reads the Wikipedia article on it to understand that there is much there that is offensive to us Aspies, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome. I and many others are fine with the terms Asperger's syndrome but find the term Asperger;s Disorder extremely offensive! We assert that we are not disordered but "differently ordered". The very fact that Asperger's brings with it some things that are cognitive gifts needs to be balanced against the relative deficits in social interactions. Many of us also take the position of "Nothing About Us, Without us" and we object to the so called "experts" deciding that the term Asperger's Syndrome should be replaced with "Autism Spectrum Disorder" Besides the use of the word "Disorder" the connotation of using the word "Autism", is that Autism is something so different as to be "Broken" and most of us do not accept the notion that we are broken, and in need of being fixed.

Petros wrote: my mother would have had me medicated or institutionalized or analyzed had it been a known thing.
You are most likely right on that point especially given societal attitudes when you were a child. One of the greatest disasters for Aspies has been, in about the 1980's forward, the penchant of doctors, and their social services cohorts to want to drug children into normalcy resulting in making matters worse, often traumatically.

Only when Asperger's Syndrome occurs with serious co-morbidities or merges into full blown Autism, should medications even be considered, and then with the utmost caution. If anyone has an Aspi child, the first thing they should do is go to the Wrong Planet website and get into the Parents sub-forum and also read widely in the sub-forums of the Aspies dealing with "so called" treatment, Focus there should be on some of the horror stories there but also the success stories, which usually occur when a gifted understanding expert finally got involved.

I guess I lucked out, when I was taken to the "Child Guidance" clinic in the mid 50's . They were more impressed with my academic gifts than they were with my problems and so were not interventionist.

Petros wrote:The possibility exists that it is recent. If there are data on frequency outside the citified [I cannt quite say civilized] West, I know them not.
The diagnosis is recent in that Dr. Hans Asperger did his work in the 1940's but it lay neglected and dormant until someone else circa the 1980's working with some children noticed that Dr. Asperger, had already described the pattern. And to her credit, (as I remember it was a woman), rather than stick her name on it, honored Dr. Asperger's contribution and left his name on it. However there have always been gifted academics who were total social klutzes. Some here may be familiar with the Name Alexander Cruden (1699-1770) who wrote Cruden's Concordance, the first systematic concordance of the Bible (much of it prepared while he was in an asylum). It takes little expertise to read his life history at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Cruden [1]to realize (however dicey it may be to try to diagnose historical figures) that his life story matches the "Social Klutz, Savant" pattern that so very well characterizes so many Aspies. The level of classic "hyper focus" manifested in cataloging every Greek and Hebrew word in the entirety of the Bible, and scientifically organizing it, 200 years before the availability of computers and word processors is "Sooooo Aspie :roll: ".

-------------------
[1]
Less available but possibly equally or more authoritative is:
Alexander Cruden, Cruden's Unabridged Concordance, Fleming H. Revell Company, Old Tappan, New Jersey, Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 54-11084, 21st Printing January 1972, "Sketch of The Life and Character of Alexander Cruden "Preface Pages xii-xv
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Re: Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby Petros » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:24 am

"We assert that we are not disordered but "differently ordered"."

Preach it, Brother. One thing I have long thought - suggesting that the Aspie has been around longer than the days of Cruden or Babbage [his bio strongly suggests Asperger's] - is that the Aspie mind is elegantly adapted for the scout, the trapper, the herbalist, in some cultures the smith, the scribe once we have writing - niches where a non-gregarious person with good focus would be a great boon to the society. It would hardly be a disorder. Parents might be glad to see a future tribal historian among their children. In the free market of careers, the young who hung out with the smith would become apprentices. In some parts, yes, the smith, the trapper are on the fringe, with special ways of interacting with society. But we have I think [not enough data to assert] been around since the dawn and not always marginal.

The sensory issues seem to pattern with the wiring, though there is much variation.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby Petros » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:30 am

recent - of course, I am a war baby, historical linguist narrowly diverted from archaeology, son of two Classicists. "Recent" to me means 70s in pop culture, post 1700 in history, later than the First Dynasty in archaeology, and Neolithic or later in human time.

I don't think I have a clear boundary for cosmic phenomena.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby Petros » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:21 am

I feel a compulsion to be more precise.

For "I have always" and "I have long" the terminus a quo is the point where the thought, belief, awareness, practice first became possible. Thus "I have always preferred white wine to red" is more recent than "I have long avoided wearing denim".

So, "I always distrusted President Clinton" versus "I have long felt Calvin Coolidge was my kind of politician." What WOULD we do without relativity?
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby jochanaan » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:44 pm

Could it be that some of the Biblical prophets were "on the spectrum"? I tend to think (without enough evidence to convince any dedicated Didymist :) ) that, in many if not most past cultures, folks with the kind of hyperfocus I have observed and you have described would indeed have been recognized as prophets, seers, smiths (if they had that gift and skill), or otherwise valued members of the tribe/community.

The trouble now appears to be that EuroAmerican culture mostly wants to put many humans of different dimensions into square pigeonholes...
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Re: Cur Ipsissima Vestita

Postby Petros » Fri May 01, 2015 1:20 am

And that of course is it. Hive culture wants no more than say 5-10 castes [termites more than ants] with little individualism. A human band will have specialists - herbalist, healer, potter, storyteller, artist, tracker - above and beyond the tasks pretty much any member can do at least competently.

Certainly prophet[ess] could be a good nic h for spectrals. What price the Cumaean Sibyl, filling her cave with stacks of prophecies on leaves then letting them be windblown? And Elisha - not so much Elijah - you could make a good case for him. Herself agrees - not that that proves it, but her different insight is significant - that we are not dealing with a recent cultural artifact here.
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