Not quite an explanation

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Not quite an explanation

Postby Petros » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:40 pm

As you may recall, I have for some time now been probing Herself's nudity issues, gathering as much as possible on the what why how when. Not holding my breath for a breakthrough any time soon - but prayer and data gathering never go amiss.

So today, following from a chance remark yesterday, I acquired a few more data. In this case, I am frankly puzzled. What seems totally natural, goes without saying to her, makes no clear sense to me. Any ideas welcome.

Here are the essentials:

1. She will take a shower, but even if it is guaranteed nobody is around to see she will put on a robe to walk 12 feet to the bedroom

2. She will willingly have large areas of epidermis massaged / caressed / explored by hand, so long as there is no way the said surfaces can be seen - vision, she says, is the important factor.

3. Visiting the bathroiom, she will not bother with the door if she is reasonably sure there will be nobody passing [compare #1].

4. Today she tells me - she would rather use a stool strangely located in the crowded public square than be seen by even one nude - because on the said stool "she would be dressed".

Clearly she sees this as logicAlly coherent and self evident. I fear I do not.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby jasenj1 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:43 am

What a strange thing man is; and what a stranger thing woman.
- Lord Byron

It seems she believes being nude is improper and/or uncivilized. Base. Savage.

The toilet thing confuses me as well. My wife & daughter will carelessly use the toilet in each others' company and/or leave the door open. I'm a door closer. Toilet time is private time. But I will go from standing nude at the toilet (with the door closed) with urine coming out of my penis to walking around the bedroom nude. Naught has changed but a stream of water.

How does she react to nudity on TV? Alas, there are not many movies with non-sexual nudity. So differentiating between an attitude toward sex & mere humanity may be difficult. Maybe the "Naked & Afraid" TV show, but that is an assault of nudity.
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby Petros » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:01 am

It is very deepseated, hard to sort out - I expect there is little logic in it, and only minimal rationalization of an ingrown reaction.

She does NOT like to see nudity, her own or others - If a nude scene - even if not a sex scene, where she has some excuse - shows up on the screen she will comment and if possible fast forward.

In my case, I would have no problem excreting in front of her, though obviously I would not. In the open air on the square, no.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby MoNatureMan » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:19 pm

A woman's mind works differently than ours.
Only real hope in understanding is for a woman on the forum to help explain what is happening in their thought process.
To man - woman is not logical
To woman - man does not understand

I think
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby jochanaan » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:35 pm

This all suggests deep conditioning in childhood, probably "to protect her," at the instigation of church leaders who really believed that seeing bare feminine flesh would invariably lead men into sin, and that clothing and proper demeanor would not. We know better, of course. But that's the mindset we deal with. See "Christian Patriarchy." :roll:
You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby Petros » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:46 am

I doubt this can be simply attributed to the feminine mind. True, researches confirm that one's sex in fact comes into the mental recipe, but I have known female 5w4s very similar to me in mental makeup and can testify that the male 4w5 does not present with a logic significantly closer to mine than Herself's. In many areas we communicate rather better than we can either of us with most others - but in parts of our deep logics we are mysteries to each other.

It may well be early conditioning, but it is not traceable. My sister and I, barely a year apart, received essentially the same conditioning, but I am as I am - grabbing what nudity I can - while she from as far back as I have any memory ha been a nudity avoider. When it is deep enough, it becomes difficult to distinguish nature from nurture. Take my very negative reaction to water on the back of the head and neck - discomfort, panic, respiratory disturbance. My first awareness of that goes back to the lake around age 5, when my dad started teaching us to float with an eye to eventual swimming. I strongly reacted to floating with occiput and neck immersed. Was the experience coming up against the wall of my sensitivity, or did I build my back of neck phobia out of the insecurity of bobbing in the water? Can't say.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby naturist » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:29 pm

Petros wrote: female 5w4s very similar to me in mental makeup and can testify that the male 4w5


Petros,

I see you referring to these 5w4s, 4w5, etc. off and on in your posts. Could you enlighten me and others who do not understand what these mean...or maybe it's just me :? ?
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby Petros » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:20 am

Some reference will be around if one digs - but who wants to dig? Operating the Enneagram personality classification, I suspect more robust than the moderately MBTI, but meauring something different which we have found more useful. One tries to ignore its not very reassuring origins, but as currently practice has a fairly high reliability and has proven useful in understanding how interactions with others go. It can best be checked out at http://www.enneagram.com. We have found Helen Palmer arguably the most trustworthy and clear of the major exponents.

I, Number 1 son, Nice Niece Liesl are all 5w4 [with different modulations, but close], Herself and Julia to whom I refer from time to time 4w5.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby naturist » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:06 am

Very interesting Petros , thanks for the link :)
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:55 pm

Enneagram Results...
It's as if I took a fistful of bird shot and hit most of the targets rather than any one.
I guess that is good?
It is honestly me, for better or worse.
Results may vary on retesting
Type 2 - 7.4
Type 3 - 6.4
Type 1 - 5.7
Type 8 - 4.4
Type 9 - 4.4
Type 7 - 4

Wing 2w3 - 10.6
Wing 2w1 - 10.3
Wing 3w2 - 10.1
Wing 1w2 - 9.4
Wing 1w9 - 7.9
Wing 9w1 - 7.3
Wing 3w4 - 7.3
Wing 9w8 - 6.6
Wing 8w9 - 6.6
Wing 8w7 - 6.4
Wing 7w8 - 6.2
Wing 7w6 - 4.7
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Re: Not quite an explanation

Postby Petros » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:08 pm

There are a pile of different tests around, longer shorter, cheaper pricier, better worse.

I am not really familar with a test that scores that way, but in your case that strongly suggests you are a 2w3. Hard for me to confirm, most of the 2w3s I have known are demale - though a senior year classmate in high school was definitely 2w3. They tend to be hard to spot for me for a number of reasons.

I would suggest you check out particularly what she has on the two, watch the Type 2 interview see if and how it fits.

Experience shows as you get deeper things shift a bit and start to gel.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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