compliant but complaining

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Re: compliant but complaining

Postby Petros » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:47 am

Not to quibble and certainly not to carp - but "every man under his vine and under his fig tree" is in societies I am aware of descriptive of the active paterfamilias as well as the senior - tazama mvi zangu - councillor. The child sits in his parent's compound or visits his father's man-hut; the young adult lives at home until marriage, when a new compound gets built with newly established vine or food-field or fig-tree get going.

I grant you that is what one would like to see in retirement, but it is not, I should say, scripturally reserved for the retiree.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: compliant but complaining

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:51 am

Petros wrote:Not to quibble and certainly not to carp - but "every man under his vine and under his fig tree" is in societies I am aware of descriptive of the active paterfamilias as well as the senior - tazama mvi zangu - councillor. The child sits in his parent's compound or visits his father's man-hut; the young adult lives at home until marriage, when a new compound gets built with newly established vine or food-field or fig-tree get going.

I grant you that is what one would like to see in retirement, but it is not, I should say, scripturally reserved for the retiree.

One man cannot eat a treeful of figs, even if you dry some for later.
There is enough to share with family and those in need.
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Re: compliant but complaining

Postby Petros » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:43 am

Right - family and community are assumed.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: compliant but complaining

Postby natman » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:06 am

Bare_Truth wrote:
natman wrote:.....Besides, I do not see "retirement" as a Biblical concept.
Actually if one lives financially conservatively and pays off the mortgage and saves and prepares for retirement it is, or at least can be biblical. You just have to look for the blessing in scripture that describes it.
In the 4th chapter, conveying the words of God's promise of future prosperity and peace Micah wrote: 1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 ¶And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
A proper retirement is just a foretaste of that.


Perhaps, if you are into cherry-picking a verse out of context. However, in the verse directly prior, it references "plowshares" and "pruning hooks" which are implements of labor. No one can sit under a vine or fig tree for long without proper planting, pruning and harvesting.

My point is that I do not see examples of people "retiring" from their work anywhere in Scripture (except, perhaps, for the Leverite priests). Rather, we see people doing whatever it is they do until the day they die, especially the patriarchs and Apostles.
SON-cerely,
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Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Re: compliant but complaining

Postby Bare_Truth » Sun May 01, 2016 10:53 pm

The citation I made was influenced by my own retirement that has allowed me to depart from Academia and Industry (the corporate world) of those two words and simplify my life to a slower yet rewarding and productive simpler existence which marches to a natural cadence and not a clock. The peaceful and pleasant labor that I do experiencing a more natural existence does involve labor as I dress and keep and improve my little bit of land that to a considerable extent feeds me. So it is that the peaceful productive existence that is in the Bible is descriptive of the existence that is my "retirement" and I have retired not in a sense of being a lazy layabout do-nothing but in the sense that to "retire" is to "withdraw", and I have withdrawn from much of the kind of existence that mankind's selfish rat race cuIlture has created, to something more in keeping with what God promises. I have, for instance, just ordered some weeping willows to help beautify my pond with their graceful appearance, and when they arrive I will have the joy of the labor of planting them, and hopefully later the joy of viewing their elegant adornment of my pond as I view them from my bedroom, patio door, in the morning. :D
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Re: compliant but complaining

Postby Petros » Mon May 02, 2016 10:43 am

It was once in some parts not uncommon for the couple of advancing years, their children raised, their work of middle age done, to "retire", the one to the monastery, the other to the convent. Those familiar with the Benedictine or Carmelite life will realize this is a change of work and sphere and not a vacation.

So too the widow in the dower house and the old farmer whose sons do the hared work.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: compliant but complaining

Postby DaveT » Fri May 13, 2016 9:49 pm

Agriculture was the predominant occupation. As late as the 1920's it still took 80% of the population to grow food for themselves and the other 20%. Now it's more like 2% farm population. (USA at least) Long ago when people grew their own food for the most part, and their own clothes at times. And when retirement incomes didn't exist unless people created their own. There was always work to be done. The older folks would work till they couldn't walk, and then keep working until they couldn't get out of bed. Sitten on the porch shellin peas, snappin beans, spinning yarn, while spinnin yarns if anyone cared to listen, could be done even if they got too feeble to get off the porch. The whole family worked together to get the work done so they could all eat.
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