Is all nudity full of lust?

How do people control their lust, when they are all together, naked? Doesn't the Bible say it's wrong?<P>Only Native Residents may post here.

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Postby bn2bnude » Wed May 09, 2007 7:37 am

So, in following my own guidelines, here are my thoughts.

LF, I believe you are right, there is a lot of hysteria around this subject but, as someone pointed out, one child being abused or molested is too many.

The problem with this sort of crime is that it is "self perpetuating" if you will. Quite often, the abused becomes the abuser to the next generation so without breaking the cycle, there is a big problem. Also, this is a crime where the victim is less likely to tell someone about the problem. Then there are the spouses who don't want the problem but are afraid to let someone know about it. All and all, a hidden and ugly crime.

Unfortunately, in our society in particular, the nudity = sex mentality is way too strong and people don't understand the causes and are knee jerk reacting. The logic being something like

nudity = sex
that man is naked
he must be after sex
if he is not interested in that woman, it must be that child

The problem that I see occurring as our society gets more and more clothes compulsive is that, unlike the appropriate touch teaching that is often shared, there is no appropriate nudity teaching so ALL nudity becomes wrong.
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Postby LivingFree » Wed May 09, 2007 10:28 am

The self perpetuating cycle is certainly true of human nature. We all too frequently copy what we see / experienced / heard about growing up, both the good and the bad, but the bad seemingly gets more attention. Also, we talk about the bad more often, but even though we condemn it, we then also copycat it. Maybe it's because there is so very little teaching on how to overcome it in positive ways. Saying "bad boy, bad girl," is not enough. If healthy behavior is not explained and reinforced, it can't be incorporated easily into one's belief system or lifestyle practice.

There's another thing I've thought about a lot. In our North American temperate climate zone, it's just not warm enough to enjoy lots of comfortable nudity. When even people living in Florida need a covering to stay warm for brief parts of the year, and people living in Canada need a covering all year long, at least for night, it simply becomes easier to adopt a "clothing" culture. I can say from my own family's experience, that while my clothes can quite easily come off at around 75° f, my wife is still cold in the low 80s, and when the breeze strikes her whole body it "chills" her, so clothing is much preferred, especially in an air-conditioned culture. Now, human nature being what it is, we much prefer what we get used to. There is also the 30/70 rule. That is, about 70% easily acclimate to the "norm," whatever that norm is, 15% in fact demand the "norm," and the 15% on the other extreme reject the "norm."

So, if Northern Europeans ever become a mostly clothing optional culture, air temperatures will have to become a lot warmer, and cultural acclimation will have to undergo a radical change, which will take many generations. (Observe how relatively slowly any type of cultural changes occur.)

If this theory has any foundation, that's another reason why positive, healthy conversation and education about non-sexualized nudity is necessary. The 70% simply won't change "on a dime," and just berating them will drive them farther away from other options. In my view, the biggest fear to overcome in the minds of the 70% is that nude can be comfortable and safe and non-sexual, all at the same time. The laws which reuire nipples, pubic spots, and penises to be covered simply cannot change until those "fears" are relieved. We know that exposing nipples, pubic regions, and penises doesn't create sexual misbehavior, but the mass hysteria and fear even keeps people from talking about it. So positive education is imo the most sane and sensible option for those who are enlightened with a different reality.
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Postby jochanaan » Wed May 09, 2007 12:45 pm

Desert Hiker wrote:
jochanaan wrote:
natman wrote:...Perhaps it could reverse 160 years of sexual deviancy which I feel is a direct result of man-made Puritanical and Victorian tradition.

...which, ironically, was developed in response to actual or perceived sexual deviance. :roll:


Partly true John--at least that was their "excuse"--I see it more as a scheme by the wealthy, and rich of that era to flaunt their wealth, and opulence. And since they knew that the poor could not afford the trappings of the rich, it would further ensure their perceived superiority by encouraging the poor to go broke trying to emulate them. At the same time, it gave the rich the appearance of proprietary, without actually having to be morally proper. Additionally, by outlawing nudity, they made the least showing of some cleavage all that much more enticing. And those corsets hid a multitude of sins, particularly glutany--they had the appearence of being perfectly formed and morally upright, while they lived a less public life of debauchery, and scandalous affairs.

Oh yes, they were great pretenders--like so many of us.

Well, that's true. The Victorians were as known for sexual perversity as for prudery--and maybe the perversity was the flip side of the prudery. When you put something in a dark place, it tends to rot. :shock:
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Postby natman » Wed May 09, 2007 2:00 pm

LF,

I think that the only way that there will be conversations and growth in the area of non-sexualized nudity is for there to be more regular sightings of people engaging in non-sexual nude common activities.

There are plenty of mentions of nudity in the news, movies and television. Unfortunately most of it is either incombination with criminal activities or as some attention grabbing effort.

I am delighted when I find articles and clips that reprensent nudity in a matter-of-fact manner, including examples such as the Dove ad campaign and the Tunik photo shoots.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Postby LivingFree » Wed May 09, 2007 10:38 pm

natman wrote:LF,

I think that the only way that there will be conversations and growth in the area of non-sexualized nudity is for there to be more regular sightings of people engaging in non-sexual nude common activities.

I think that's part of the story. The other part is that it's all too easy for nudists themselves to speak in negative tones, rather than in positive tones. Which is partly what spawned this ongoing strip. I posted something inocuous, just to raise a conversation, and it seemed to me it started off on a rather negative note. Does that say something, or what?
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Postby Desert Hiker » Thu May 10, 2007 1:07 am

I don't know that the tone was inappropriate, we were simply affirming what you had suggested--that there is too much hype, and hysteria about nudity, and sex crimes--and that nudists are often maligned for being perverts, when we know we are not.

Yes we do need to reach out, and educate our friends, family, and neighbors--and that is usually done with a smile and a hand shake...
Peace In Christ, Sam

Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart...--Job
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Postby SiteAdmin » Fri May 11, 2007 12:25 am

Desert Hiker wrote:I don't know that the tone was inappropriate, we were simply affirming what you had suggested--that there is too much hype, and hysteria about nudity, and sex crimes--and that nudists are often maligned for being perverts, when we know we are not.
I can appreciate that. Thanks.

Desert Hiker wrote:Yes we do need to reach out, and educate our friends, family, and neighbors--and that is usually done with a smile and a hand shake...
Besides with a smile and a handshake, what are some ways to do that in this kind of medium?
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Postby natman » Fri May 11, 2007 11:38 am

In this medium, what has worked best for me are the testemonies and photos of people that enjoy simple, practical nudity at home, in the garden, at play, around the pool or at the beach. The photo albums at NC has been one of the best places to get the point across, although I would love to see more photos of people involved in worship and prayer.

I have also been involved in the Christian Naturism wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_naturism.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Postby Strandloper » Fri May 11, 2007 3:43 pm

Looks as if that one has been sabotaged again, Nathan.
Wiki says it doesn’t have such a page.
That is another reason why I don’t get involved there.
Shalom,
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Postby bn2bnude » Fri May 11, 2007 7:34 pm

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Postby natman » Mon May 14, 2007 9:30 am

Interesting. I get the page when I click on the link.

Try entering "CHristian Naturism" in the wikipedia search window.
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Nathan Powers

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Postby bn2bnude » Mon May 14, 2007 10:51 pm

natman wrote:Interesting. I get the page when I click on the link.

Try entering "CHristian Naturism" in the wikipedia search window.


For some reason (maybe browser differences, I use Firefox?), the link I see on your post has the "." included. I figured that out after I compared the two.
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Postby Desert Hiker » Sat May 19, 2007 12:04 am

That could be it--the period in a link confuses some browsers. I know that when I use Firedox the errant period is commonly an issue that causes Firefox to display an error page. Interestingly, my laptop's IE7 sees it fine, and displays the page properly as well.
Peace In Christ, Sam

Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart...--Job
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Postby bn2bnude » Sat May 19, 2007 12:17 am

Desert Hiker wrote:That could be it--the period in a link confuses some browsers. I know that when I use Firedox the errant period is commonly an issue that causes Firefox to display an error page. Interestingly, my laptop's IE7 sees it fine, and displays the page properly as well.


Slight detour here....

Firefox has a feature (or plugin, I don't remember) that interprets what it believes are url's. It may not always work right.
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Postby Jon-Marc » Sat May 19, 2007 2:44 am

Desert Hiker wrote:That could be it--the period in a link confuses some browsers. I know that when I use Firedox the errant period is commonly an issue that causes Firefox to display an error page. Interestingly, my laptop's IE7 sees it fine, and displays the page properly as well.


That's why, if I use a link, I leave off the period at the end of the sentence or put a space before the period so that it doesn't become part of the link.
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