Dichotomy

Are there any other issues that bother you about nudism / naturism not covered above? How can it be Christian? Other? Any question is acceptable, just keep the conversation courteous and respectful.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

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Dichotomy

Postby Epaphras » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:56 pm

Sometimes I feel like I lead two lives. Part of me does not like having to keep my interest in nude recreation a secret from my "church" friends. I know 99% of them wouldn't understand. I also risk the leadership positions I hold by being both a leader in the campus ministry and a nudist.

The other part of me just wants to be out with it. That part of me says, "If your friends won't be your friends any more just because you are a nudist, then they really aren't your friends are they?"

I guess I'm torn. I don't want to give up nude recreation but I don't want to have to explain to ALL my Christian friends what nudism really is (and what it isn't...) and why I do it.

Also, my career might take me into public service (local government), and I'm a little concerned that in a background check they would find my AANR membership and that would keep me from a job. That might be an unfounded fear but I feel it nonetheless.

Has anyone else ever felt this way?
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Postby natman » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:54 pm

Epaphras,

This is something you really need to pray about. If part of you is reserved about what you do in your spare time, then I believe you either need to get a better foundation on what to base you beliefs, or quit all together.

Being one who would prefer to err on the side of caution, if you even slightly think that there is something wrong with practicing simple naturism, then you should set it aside until you are strong enough in your beliefs to stand up for it if tested. And, yes, that may mean losing your job.

I am of the opinion, "Don't ask. Don't tell." But if someone asks me if I run around the house and yard "nekkid", I will gladly say "yes" and hopefully use it as a witnessing tool to the completed work of Christ in me.

Also, what a better witness of someone entering the political world. Like the guy who posed naked as part of his campaign to run for office in Spain. He was the candidate with absolutely NOTHING to hide.

SEE: http://www.cnvillage.org/viewtopic.php? ... ight=spain
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Postby bullet » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:02 pm

AMEN!!!
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Postby Alfie » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:25 pm

I operate on the Not Asked-No Tell principal to (different wording Nate), I am not ashamed of my naturism, as I shouldn't be. But I am concerned about other's uninformed, misguided attitudes and their reactions. I am near to retirement and am self employed so the career issue does not enter the equation for me. I think I would be somewhat more guarded if I was about to enter the teaching career that I have completed. Take Nathan's comments as food though.
What you do in the privacy of your own property should not be of concern, but social nudity is where other's reactions could cause problems. And it is the reactions that are the problem, not your practise that they may react to!
I would love for all my friends and acquaintances to know of my naturism if only they could accept it and not react against me because of it, but even better if they were to embrace it, hey?
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Postby LivingFree » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:30 am

Well, it is said that Benjamin Franklin took "air walks" every day.

For today though, there are many reasons why some people panic. Some fear sexual arousal. Others fear the "voices on their shoulder" from the past, telling them it's wrong. Some fear their pastor or other spiritual leader. Others had a bad experience once; others yet were sexually molested earlier in life; still others were taught by their care givers to always be covered up because it was "the nice thing to do," and they never want to displease those above them. So yes, there's a lot to overcome, and you don't want to use the wrong box to fill a round hole!
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Postby bn2bnude » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:56 am

I certainly understand the conflict, although I would fear less about the public service aspect of your future.

I had a friend who, in college, believed in better living through chemicals. When it came time to pass his security clearance, he didn't lie, just told the truth. It would take him longer to get cleared but didn't stop him.

We have had recent presidents who have admitted to "smoking but not inhaling" and "having a problem" with chemicals. Why not a public servant who enjoys clothes free recreation... It's sure better than some of the other recent scandals.

As far as the leadership in the campus organization goes, I am mixed there also. If nudity is not biblically wrong (which I believe it is not), then to deny your leadership in that area because of your participation is wrong.

We are all sinners, even Paul said he was the greatest of sinners. I fall on the don't volunteer but don't deny side myself. I would, however, figure out your stance prior to any incident. Were you to be confronted would you....

1) Admit it and offer to step down?
2) Admit it and offer to not try to recruit others? (certainly a valid point of view)
3) Don't admit it?

In any recourse, I would suggest you do two things. First off, lots of prayer! Secondly, be willing to not be in leadership. Third, join Fig Leaf Forum (if you haven't already) and download their "Pastor Cover Letter" as well as their Apologia document as resources to give the leadership. I have been in touch with the editor several times and believe that he is a Godly man who does take the Bible literally, in fact, he confronted me on facts in an article which I wrote -- he was correct.

Even if you decide to abandon clothes free recreation for the reasons given above, this is something that may still come back to haunt you as I do believe that as we live for God, Satan will try to knock us down any way possible. If you look at the lives of Christ and the Apostles, however, I see the greatest spiritual victories when the spiritual war was the strongest. They were all prepared for the battle.

KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE. LIVE WHAT YOU KNOW.
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Postby natman » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:29 pm

bn2bnude wrote:1) Admit it and offer to step down?
2) Admit it and offer to not try to recruit others? (certainly a valid point of view)
3) Don't admit it?


Bn2bnude,

I think you left off one more option...
4) Admit it and offer a Biblical explanation.

As a preemptive move, you could even pose a "hypothetical third party" question to your pastor or teaching minister about what the Bible says about nudity, expressing the notion that someone you know, who wishes to remain annonymous, presented you with the question followed up with scriptures. Since they are anwering your question for "someone you know" (who happens to be yourself), they may be more inclined to approach it with an open mind. At the very least, it might get them to begin thinking about it, and it might reduce the stress they might go through if they suddenly realize that someone in their ministry is a practicing naturist.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Postby bn2bnude » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:39 am

natman wrote:I think you left off one more option...
4) Admit it and offer a Biblical explanation.


You are right... We probably both missed one or two now but I think we got the most plausible ones... The resources I mentioned would help with #4 as well.
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Postby SteveNTL » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:06 am

I think I understand in you a heart's desire for transparency with people. There are many risks to transparency. You have to choose your battles. I take the risks, in order to be transparent, as often as I can - but sometimes it would be just foolish, like casting pearls before beings (swine) that have no ability to appreciate them. So, I try to listen for the Holy Spirit's prompting. I do not think there is a formula that works for all persons and all situations with respect to being transparent, other than FOLLOWING (His leading).

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Postby Desert Hiker » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:23 am

Amen to that Steve!!

There is great advice here from all who have contributed, but I think Steve has summed it up very well. God knows that I am all for being very transparent--sometimes to a fault. But as Steve mentioned, there are inherent risks to being openly transparent--so it is wise to temper your enthusiasm with patience, and a willingness to follow the prompting of the Spirit as to when, where, and who you confide in. It is not that you/we are doing anything wrong--but not everyone would be comfortable with that kind of personal knowledge, or ready to deal with the challenges to their faith it would present them with--especially when it is someone in a leadership position.

There are people who would have a really tough time looking their Pastor in the eye, with a straight face, knowing that he spends his off days at home, sitting around naked, or in his boxers, watching football games on Tivo. This kind of knowledge would just blow some people's ability to respect that Pastor--even though there is nothing wrong with it. Yes, I know that we should not put our Pastors, and other leaders on such ridiculous pedestals, but some people do, and we have to try and let them down easy--so they can slowly realize that their Pastor really is a human being, and are just as likely as anyone else to sink, if they were ever to attempt to walk on water. Some people's faith is very weak, and delicately fragile--and they are just not ready to know this yet.

I too, am often busting at the seams at many of our fellowship gatherings to just spill the beans, and tell them of the freedoms we have in Christ. But, alas, I am patient to listen for the prompting of the Spirit, and let Him open the doors, and prepare the hearts of those who would listen--and so far, He has not lead me astray, or allowed scandals to erupt from our honest discussions, and I am thankful for that.

So, yes, be honest, be transparent--but be discrete, and follow the leading of the Spirit.
Peace In Christ, Sam

Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart...--Job
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Postby Epaphras » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:01 am

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I've decided that it wouldn't be the end of the world if my friends and family knew me and Sarah were nudists. We are not ashamed of it and would never lie about it. We would (and will) however practice discretion. Some people don't need to know. Some people will never even accept the possibility that it is possible to be nude with other people and have it not be about sex. This being a college campus, almost every lifestyle imaginable is tolerated and I'm sure being a nudists ranks low on the offensive lifestyles list. As for the worship team, well there really is no way they would know, and if someone approached me saying they saw my name and picture on a nudist forum I'd ask "Well what were you doing looking at nudist forums?"
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Postby jochanaan » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:12 pm

Epaphras wrote:...if someone approached me saying they saw my name and picture on a nudist forum I'd ask "Well what were you doing looking at nudist forums?"

LOL Good answer! Especially since it's the one I've decided I'll give in similar situations. :wink: And who knows? To quote from the movie Casablanca, "This may be the beginning of a beautiful friendship." :mrgreen:
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Postby LivingFree » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:04 pm

jochanaan wrote:
Epaphras wrote:...if someone approached me saying they saw my name and picture on a nudist forum I'd ask "Well what were you doing looking at nudist forums?"

LOL Good answer! Especially since it's the one I've decided I'll give in similar situations. :wink: And who knows? To quote from the movie Casablanca, "This may be the beginning of a beautiful friendship." :mrgreen:


Well, sad to say, it doesn't always work. The stock defensive answer then is, "I was just checking up on my fellow Christians, to make sure none of them were going astray." And so, they feel self-righteously justified. (That's actually what happened to me, once, so I know whereof I speak.)
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Postby mfsimbs » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:11 am

Recently (in the last month or so) I've been more forthcoming about my undress code whenever possible. The topic has come up with my brother and sister (both younger) and even colleagues at work. My sister was somewhat open to the possibility, my brother repulsed by the idea (most likely due to our similar Catholic upbringing) and my colleagues thought it was great that we (my bride and I) felt comfortable enough with our bodies to socialize naturally, though for certain they (the colleagues) could never do that. I'm not so sure that's the case and as it gets a bit warmer, an invitation will be extended to several of them to attend events of our non-landed club and also to visit a couple of local landed resorts. I've already dropped the hint that the invitation would come to which I received a chuckle. It's likely that they're calling my bluff to see if I'll actually extend the invitation. Trust me, I will. There's nothing to be ashamed of and I'm becoming bolder. Continue having the awesome, natural day that you've already begun.

Naturally,

Sean
Find me as I was born and as God intended at numerous CAFN events.
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Postby SonClad » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:22 pm

We would concur with Steve on this - if we're feeling prompted by the Holy Spirit to say something, we will. Otherwise, we employ the 'not asked, no need to tell' approach. With some people, you get a feeling that they just wouldn't understand and so why bother causing a problem? Sometimes the most loving thing you can do is to keep quiet and not stir up trouble with those that are weaker in the faith (i.e., those that cannot seem to accept others' liberties in Christ that they themselves may not necessarily be inclined to explore).
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