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Are there any other issues that bother you about nudism / naturism not covered above? How can it be Christian? Other? Any question is acceptable, just keep the conversation courteous and respectful.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

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Postby LivingFree » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:00 pm

Good questions, SSG. Not stupid at all. But I have one for you. What's KWIM?

Why do people fight (or disagree strongly?) over how to tell people about Jesus? And why are there so many ways? Well, God gave each one of us 6.5 billion people on the earth a very wonderful gift -- the ability to be ourselves, all by ourselves. Each of us able to think, make decisions, learn, try new things, etc. etc. So when someone thinks they finally "got it right," they want everyone to follow that way. But that gets us into trouble. I like jochanaan's example. But it's hard to learn to function as an orchestra. It's much more "fun" to play the lead part, or maybe even a solo part.

Finding the gifts? Well, If you read 1 Corinthians 12-13 as one unit, you will see in 12:31b that the greatest gift of all is love. As far as the other gifts are concerned, 12:7 says that the different gifts come from the Holy Spirit. It's a God thing, not a man thing. The trouble we get into is when we try to insist that everyone follows what we think is the right way. See? So I say, let God do what he wants to do when he wants to do it. Don't rush the Spirit. Jesus said in John 3:8 says the Holy Spirit is like the wind, blowing wherever he wills. We can't control it; we can only receive the gifts the Spirit brings when the Spirit wants to bring them. Usually, IMHO. if we just do what we're good at doing, God will take care of the rest. Don't sweat it.
:butbut:
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Postby jochanaan » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:24 pm

SteveNTL wrote:Good example, J ! Thanks. And you ARE funny. Everyone knows the tuba is the main cornerstone of the orchestra.

That assertion, of course, has nothing to do with the tuba being YOUR instrument. :mrgreen:
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Postby Sunshine Girl » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:16 pm

LivingFree wrote:Good questions, SSG. Not stupid at all. But I have one for you. What's KWIM?


KWIM means Know What I Mean

LivingFree wrote:Why do people fight (or disagree strongly?) over how to tell people about Jesus? And why are there so many ways? Well, God gave each one of us 6.5 billion people on the earth a very wonderful gift -- the ability to be ourselves, all by ourselves. Each of us able to think, make decisions, learn, try new things, etc. etc. So when someone thinks they finally "got it right," they want everyone to follow that way. But that gets us into trouble. I like jochanaan's example. But it's hard to learn to function as an orchestra. It's much more "fun" to play the lead part, or maybe even a solo part.


Yeah, I get that and know that. I'm just asking why is it such fight about which way's right.

LivingFree wrote:Finding the gifts? Well, If you read 1 Corinthians 12-13 as one unit, you will see in 12:31b that the greatest gift of all is love. As far as the other gifts are concerned, 12:7 says that the different gifts come from the Holy Spirit. It's a God thing, not a man thing. The trouble we get into is when we try to insist that everyone follows what we think is the right way. See? So I say, let God do what he wants to do when he wants to do it. Don't rush the Spirit. Jesus said in John 3:8 says the Holy Spirit is like the wind, blowing wherever he wills. We can't control it; we can only receive the gifts the Spirit brings when the Spirit wants to bring them. Usually, IMHO. if we just do what we're good at doing, God will take care of the rest. Don't sweat it.
:butbut:


I get that too, but what I don't get is why some people say you gotta have some gifts to prove you're saved. I kindda get into this fight thing with some ppl from church cause our church teaches that you HAVE to speak in tounges to show that you're really saved. But see, I don't think that's right. If it was then how come there's nothing mentioned about it when ppl were saved by the apostiles? It's mentioned at Penitcost (SP?) but only twice after that. but there's tons of ppl that got saved, so how come it's not mentioned then?

So....yeah....I still can't remember what I was gonna ask before. :?

BBFN!!
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Postby MatthewNeal » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:02 pm

SteveNTL wrote:Everyone knows the tuba is the main cornerstone of the orchestra.

Hey... I play tuba... no arguments from me!!

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Postby Webmaster » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:38 pm

Sunshine Girl wrote:I get that too, but what I don't get is why some people say you gotta have some gifts to prove you're saved. I kindda get into this fight thing with some ppl from church cause our church teaches that you HAVE to speak in tounges to show that you're really saved. But see, I don't think that's right. If it was then how come there's nothing mentioned about it when ppl were saved by the apostiles? It's mentioned at Penitcost (SP?) but only twice after that. but there's tons of ppl that got saved, so how come it's not mentioned then?

So....yeah....I still can't remember what I was gonna ask before. :?

BBFN!!
SSG


I'm keeping in mind that you're AOG, and I know their teachings somewhat since my brother is AOG as well. I'm not, so it's different for me.

The gifts are not proof of salvation but rather proof of God's working in your life. Not all the gifts are obvious, such as speaking in tounges. Some are more sbutle and often overlooked. Taking the testing of the spirits. That's something that you may not see unless somebody says something to you.

I would say that you might be confusing speaking in tounges as a gift of the spirit with what some say is the evidence of the baptizm of the Spirit. I don't believe that this teaching is correct. I know many good, strong, solid Christians that have never spoken in tounges when they were batized with the Spirit, but it is obvious that the Spirit is indwelling in them.

One last thing, SSG: Don't fight over something like this. For one thing it sows discord between you and the person or people you are fighting with, and in the end that could create problems for the "body" of your church. Ask questions, yes, but do so in a polite manner.

Hope this helps.

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Postby MatthewNeal » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:54 pm

Sunshine Girl wrote:I get that too, but what I don't get is why some people say you gotta have some gifts to prove you're saved. I kindda get into this fight thing with some ppl from church cause our church teaches that you HAVE to speak in tounges to show that you're really saved. But see, I don't think that's right. If it was then how come there's nothing mentioned about it when ppl were saved by the apostiles? It's mentioned at Penitcost (SP?) but only twice after that. but there's tons of ppl that got saved, so how come it's not mentioned then?


SSG, you are keen to be questioning such assersions. And just like your family learned about nudity, sometimes the thing our particular tradition has always taught us as "the Biblical teaching on ________" isn't clearly the biblical teaching at all!

I was raised in a tradition that considered ALL modernday manifestation of tongues to be in error, quoting 1 Cor. 13:8b
"where there are tongues, they will be stilled." They claim that tongues indeed WERE stilled and therefore are no longer valid for today. That is a teaching that I have come to question.

Two things I like to keep in mind about tongues...

1. NOT every Christian has the gift. 1 Cor. 12:30
"Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?" These questions are all rhetorical, meaning the answer is understood to be "no" in each case. There is no reason to conclude that ALL believers MUST speak in tongues as a sign of salvation.

2. But neither should we forbid the use of tongues. 1 Cor. 14:29
"Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues." (emphasis mine). In my opinion, they are on very shaky ground who use the subtle meanings of the Greek words combined with rather subjective observation (that tongues really DID cease) in order to conclude that tongues today are all false. And in doing so, they completely countermand this very CLEAR verse of scripture!

Spiritual gifts and tongues were a Big Deal in the church at Corinth. That's why Paul wrote so much about it to that church. And the truth is, there are a bunch of churches even today who do NOT pay much heed to the teaching in 1 Cor. 12-14. There are charismatic (tongue speaking) churches that still do not do things
"in a fitting and orderly way" (14:40) and a whole boatload of non-charismatic churches among whom a visitor would never even suspect that "God is really among you!" (14:25)

I would recommend that you do what I did... re-read 1 Cor. 12-14 again like it was your first time. Don't read it to confirm or deny what you've been taught, but rather read it to try and understand exactly what Paul was trying to communicate... nothing more, and nothing less. And as LivingFree pointed out, the famous "Love Chapter" (1 Cor. 13) is located right smack in the middle of all his teaching about Spiritual Gifts! That is NOT an accident! (rather than assume "That doesn't fit there!" we should say, "How does that fit there?" and really figure it out!)

There is much more to learn about Spiritual Gifts... and tongues (as a gift) is not anywhere close to being a primary gift. We all should discover the gift (or gifts) God has given to us by which He intends us to edify the Body of Christ. You can be sure that we will find tremendous joy and fulfillment as we use our gifts to serve God by serving others.

My Spiritual Gift? I think it's "teaching"... can you tell? (One resource I read said that people with the gift of teaching can be really boring... (OUCH!!!) :oops:

Ok, I'll shut up now!

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Postby LivingFree » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:50 am

Sunshine Girl wrote:Yeah, I get that and know that. I'm just asking why is it such fight about which way's right.


For the same reason siblings fight over all kinds of things at home. We all want to be right, and we all want to be first. We find it very hard to compromise, and to think others have even as good an idea as we do. See Philippians 2:3-4. IOW, put others first! But it's hard to do.

Sunshine Girl wrote:I get that too, but what I don't get is why some people say you gotta have some gifts to prove you're saved.


I know what you mean. It's not only that issue either. Here's a quick lesson in church history.

Jesus said, "Upon this rock I will build my church." It's a small "c," which means, he founded a spiritual family, not an organization.

The apostles went all over the place, starting house churches. In each one they appointed elders.

Eventually some elders became more powerful than others, and began to assert rulership over other house churches in their area.

By 1500, we had the Roman Catholic Church, the Greek Orthodox Church, and other national church organizational bodies. But the basic theology was all about the same.

From 1517 on (Martin Luther), strong leaders began splitting off from the RCC, and usually each one trumpeted a "favorite" doctrine which they said the RCC was missing. Luther said, "saved by grace," the Mennonites said "God's kingdom is not of this world" (they also were the first to use the term "born again"), The Reformed said "God is Sovereign." And so it went. None of the churches were speaking in tongues. When the Pentecostal revival first took root in LA around 1902 the leaders experienced speaking in tongues, and that became their main doctrine -- the one thing that proved God's Spirit had gotten hold of you. And while their theology, as one poster said, didn't demand speaking in tongues, most preachers still emphasize it very strongly, and many, many pentecostals still believe it is the sign of salvation. That's how people are. They like to grab onto one thing, and make it the big flag of the fort.

Like WM said, don't sweat it, or fight about it. Some ppl are broadminded, and some need to hang onto that flag. God made us all different.
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Postby bn2bnude » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:25 am

jochanaan wrote:Very quickly (I'm on my way to church), unity does not equal uniformity.

Unity also does mean "we do everything together". Way to often there is a lot of in-fighting in that case.
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Postby bn2bnude » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:35 am

LivingFree wrote:Finding the gifts? Well, If you read 1 Corinthians 12-13 as one unit, you will see in 12:31b that the greatest gift of all is love. As far as the other gifts are concerned, 12:7 says that the different gifts come from the Holy Spirit. It's a God thing, not a man thing.


There is also a list in Eph 4:11-13....

Eph 4:11-13 (NIV) wrote:It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.


I don't know if this falls under the spiritual gifts category, however. It doesn't look all-inclusive to me.
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Postby natman » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:18 am

SSG,

Are you SURE you're 14? For a very young lady, you have a better grasp on Christianity than many adults, based simply on the quesitions you asked, none of which are "stupid".

Sunshine Girl wrote:How do we know if we have gifts and which ones?


"Gifts" are talents and abilities that God has given specifically to you. They might include the ability to play music or sing, to study and teach, to work well with others, to be compassionate to those in need, to design or work with numbers. The most important thing to realize is that God created each of us uniquely for the purpose of giving back glory to Himself. If you sing, sing for the glory of God. If you teach, teach that God may be glorified. If you are compassionate, help others that God gets all the credit and that His light shines through you, not on you. If you are a designer, let your designs radiate the glory of the Lord. Basically, EVERYTHING we do and are able to do is a gift meant to glorify or Lord and Creator.

As far as a particular gift being "the" evidence of salvation, I believe that God grants us all different gifts so that His glory is only completed whe we come together in corporate (group) worship as the "body" of Christ. In a "body" everyone cannot be a head. Every part of tne body is necessary for it to work properly. That includes the head, brain, ears, eyes, heart, lungs, stomach, bowels, arms, legs and even the little toe. The fun part is figuring out which part you are, then doing that function the absolute best you can for God's glory.

A problem arises when we try to say that you are not saved if you do not have a particular gift. Some people can't carry a tune in a bucket. So it would be wrong to say that they were not saved because thay did not have the gift of singing.

Also, some of the gifts of the spirit listed in the Bible were given for a specific purpose and probably for a specific time. During the apostolic age (while the 12 apostles lived) the apostles and only the apostles were able to heal immediately with a simple touch and even raise people from the dead. At Pentecost, the disciples spoke to a crowd of thousands in their own language, aramaic, yet everone heard what was said in their own language, latin, greek, egyptian, chinese etc. (This is MY understanding of speaking in tongues.) We have not seen these types of miracles since then.

I kindda think we should be ready for it whenever, right? We could all go nuts trying to figure out when and all that.


This is one of the most mature statements I have heard. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Even Jesus said "I do not know the day or the hour. Only the Father knows." There are many verses, particularly in Revelation that warn us to constantly be prepared because the Lord will return "like a thief in the night", meaninng "without warning" and in the blink of an eye. Many will be caught unprepared, thinking that there will always be another day to "get right with the Lord."

In most cases, I do not think it is a matter of argument as much as it is a point of discussion. We are told that we will not know the day and time, but we will know the season based on things like wars and rumors of wars, natural disasters, famines and the like.

There are a lot of things that are spelled out explicitly in the Bible in which there is little discource.
1. God created us for His own glory and His own purpose.
2. We are all sinners in need of grace.
3. God sent his Son to die to pay the sin price that none of us could ever pay.
4. If we accept the price payed by Jesus, we are granted Jesus' righteousness as a covering for our sins.
5. Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead.

However, there are a lot of things that are not so black and white, such as whether all things were created in 6 literal, 24 hour days, or in 6 day-ages consisting of possibly millions of years, infant baptism, God's final plans for the Jewish peoples. These are things the church can actively and fervently discuss without dividing over.

These are secondary issues. The problem is when people make secondary issues into primary issues.

Is there just one way to tell them or not? I don't think there is cause, well, everybody needs to be told in a differnt way, right?


This is another mature question, and it appears you already know the answer.

Certainly EVERYONE needs to know about Jesus Christ. However, not everyone reacts to the good news of the Gospel in the same way. Your mother is modelling the same techniques that Jesus Himself used to bring people to the truth.

Jesus always satisfied people's physical and emotional needs first, providing food or healing, THEN presented the Truth to them. Even then, some people rejected Him.

I believe that when we have a good relationship with our Lord, He lets us know through the Holy Spirit how best to witness about His Son. This is what is meant when the Bible says "His Word never returns void." When we are directed by the Holy Spirit, all we have to do is be obedient. God does the rest.

That does not mean that we can expect everyone to make an immediate conversion. Sometimes we are only planting a seed in their minds and their hearts, that will grow, sometimes very slowly. Sometimes, that seed may not grow into salvation, but may cause them to say or do something that will ultimately lead someone else to the Lord.

For a young girl, your questions are AMAZING!!! It appears that you are burting at the seems with the joy of the Lord, such that you are impatient to get it out. That is WONDERFUL and I pray that you have that fire in you for the rest of your life.

Thanks.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Postby scurtis » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:26 pm

SSG,

I also attend an AOG church where I am fairly active. Before that I attended a So. Baptist
Church. I also attended a Baptist college.

As you gain maturity in your faith, I am sure you will find just as I did, that you will not agree with all of the doctrine and teachings of a particular denomination.

I attend an AOG church because it is closer to what I believe than the Baptist do. I also like the freedom of worship at my church. I have been in AOG churches where I could not tell any difference from the Baptist church I attended. You also will find differences between churches in your chosen denomination.

My parents and one sister are still Baptist and they do not speak in tongues, but I am certain I will see them in heaven. My other sister is the secretary in a So. Baptist church and she does speak in tongues. Both of my grandfathers were preachers (one Baptist, one Methodist) before the AOG movement began, I fully expect to see them in heaven.

As you gain maturity your gifts will be shown to you. I know people who have discovered their gifts as teenagers and others who don't until late adulthood. Just keep on searching the Scriptures and asking questions. The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask.

When people ask me what I am, I do not tell them I am AOG. I did not tell them I was Baptist. I simple say I am a Christian who happens to attend an AOG church.

I also must agree with Natman. Are you sure you are only 14? We all know you are, as both you and your mom have said so. You do have a spiritual maturity higher than many adults. At 14 you are in the youth dept., but I would venture a guess that you went all the way to Star of Stars in the Missionette program.


p.s. It is nice to know that they are other AOG nudists. It makes me wonder if there are others in my home church.
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Postby natman » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:04 am

scurtis wrote:p.s. It is nice to know that they are other AOG nudists. It makes me wonder if there are others in my home church.


I think you might be surprised to find that there are a lot more (AOG nudists) than you thought, even in your own church. CCM and SSG's experience in their own church showed how several came out of the woodwork when SSG's baby brother announced to the congregation that they enjoyed being naked.

Based on this and other sites, there is probably representatnion from almost every Christian denomination active in naturism. I would venture to say that even some liberal Muslim families are involved. I have a family member in Bahrain, which is the Arabic equivilant to Las Vegas. Everything forbidden by Islam goes on there including gambling, prostituion and alcohol comsumption in excess. So who's to say that there aren't some Muslim families flying under the radar that have no problem with simple nudity.
SON-cerely,
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Postby Sunshine Girl » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:55 pm

I’m gonna try to do this so I don’t get anybody ticked at me, but no promises, k?

natman wrote:SSG,

Are you SURE you're 14? For a very young lady, you have a better grasp on Christianity than many adults, based simply on the quesitions you asked, none of which are "stupid".


K, maybe I’m a kid, but that doesn’t mean I don’t know some of this stuff. (BTW, I’m 13 until Thursday. :) ) Ever since I can remember mom and dad have always done bible readings with us kids after dinner. They explain things to us so we can understand it. I think we’ve gone through the bible like 20 times or something, but every time I learn something new. Am I different cause I wanna know about God and stuff? Guess so. I mean, most of the kids in the youth group at church don’t even know how to tell somebody about Jesus, and a few of them don’t get what he did for us. I mean, yeah, they know it in their head, but they don’t get it in their soul. It kindda ticks me off cause they just don’t seem to care too much.

SO I ask questions that most kids my age don’t ask. BFD, I just wanna know the answers. The prob is that I know what I’m thinking, I just have a hard time putting it into words, KWIM?

natman wrote:
Sunshine Girl wrote:How do we know if we have gifts and which ones?


"Gifts" are talents and abilities that God has given specifically to you. They might include the ability to play music or sing, to study and teach, to work well with others, to be compassionate to those in need, to design or work with numbers. The most important thing to realize is that God created each of us uniquely for the purpose of giving back glory to Himself. If you sing, sing for the glory of God. If you teach, teach that God may be glorified. If you are compassionate, help others that God gets all the credit and that His light shines through you, not on you. If you are a designer, let your designs radiate the glory of the Lord. Basically, EVERYTHING we do and are able to do is a gift meant to glorify or Lord and Creator.

As far as a particular gift being "the" evidence of salvation, I believe that God grants us all different gifts so that His glory is only completed whe we come together in corporate (group) worship as the "body" of Christ. In a "body" everyone cannot be a head. Every part of tne body is necessary for it to work properly. That includes the head, brain, ears, eyes, heart, lungs, stomach, bowels, arms, legs and even the little toe. The fun part is figuring out which part you are, then doing that function the absolute best you can for God's glory.


K, let me see if I got this. But…well, no, I don’t agree with everythign you’re saying, Nat. I mean, you say “As far as a particular gift being "the" evidence of salvation, I believe that God grants us all different gifts so that His glory is only completed whe we come together in corporate (group) worship as the "body" of Christ. In a "body" everyone cannot be a head. Every part of tne body is necessary for it to work properly.” I get that, and yeah, ok, I agree with it, but what about the gifts for showing the unsaved the power of God? I mean, how many times did the apostiles heal ppl that weren’t saved to show them God’s power? Didn’t that like lead them to be saved? Or am I missing it? Does that work?

This is what I mean. I got in my head, but I can’t get it out so it makes sense!

natman wrote: A problem arises when we try to say that you are not saved if you do not have a particular gift. Some people can't carry a tune in a bucket. So it would be wrong to say that they were not saved because thay did not have the gift of singing.


See? That’s what I mean! Why does our church say that you GOT TO speak in tounges or you’re not really saved? That’s not right at all, is it?

natman wrote: Also, some of the gifts of the spirit listed in the Bible were given for a specific purpose and probably for a specific time. During the apostolic age (while the 12 apostles lived) the apostles and only the apostles were able to heal immediately with a simple touch and even raise people from the dead. At Pentecost, the disciples spoke to a crowd of thousands in their own language, aramaic, yet everone heard what was said in their own language, latin, greek, egyptian, chinese etc. (This is MY understanding of speaking in tongues.) We have not seen these types of miracles since then.


K, but aren’t there some gifts that still count for today? I mean, I’ve seen ppl speaking in tounges during the service and then somebody else says what it means. Course mom’s always trying to figure out if it’s from God or not. Pastor says she’s got the gift of testing the spirits or something, so I guess that works.

But what about healing? Forget the fakes on TV and stuff that put on a show for everybody, I’ve seen a couple ppl healed when we’re not in church, and it was really cool. But can’t that be for today too?

natman wrote:
I kindda think we should be ready for it whenever, right? We could all go nuts trying to figure out when and all that.


This is one of the most mature statements I have heard. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Even Jesus said "I do not know the day or the hour. Only the Father knows." There are many verses, particularly in Revelation that warn us to constantly be prepared because the Lord will return "like a thief in the night", meaninng "without warning" and in the blink of an eye. Many will be caught unprepared, thinking that there will always be another day to "get right with the Lord."


I’m cutting a lot of this outta here, sorry. It’s kindda saying the same thing again, I think. So you’re saying the same I did, kindda, I think. Sure there’s gonna be signs, but if you’re always ready what diff does it make? It’s like when I gotta clean my room for company. If my room’s always clean, then I don’t gotta try to get it ready for when they show up. That way if they just stop by it’s all good. Now Rambo…yeah, he’s a boy so I guess it’s different for him. :P

natman wrote:
Is there just one way to tell them or not? I don't think there is cause, well, everybody needs to be told in a differnt way, right?


This is another mature question, and it appears you already know the answer.

Certainly EVERYONE needs to know about Jesus Christ. However, not everyone reacts to the good news of the Gospel in the same way. Your mother is modelling the same techniques that Jesus Himself used to bring people to the truth.

Jesus always satisfied people's physical and emotional needs first, providing food or healing, THEN presented the Truth to them. Even then, some people rejected Him.

I believe that when we have a good relationship with our Lord, He lets us know through the Holy Spirit how best to witness about His Son. This is what is meant when the Bible says "His Word never returns void." When we are directed by the Holy Spirit, all we have to do is be obedient. God does the rest.

That does not mean that we can expect everyone to make an immediate conversion. Sometimes we are only planting a seed in their minds and their hearts, that will grow, sometimes very slowly. Sometimes, that seed may not grow into salvation, but may cause them to say or do something that will ultimately lead someone else to the Lord.


That’s kindda like some are to sew and some are to reap, right? So how do we know which we’re supposed to do?

natman wrote: For a young girl, your questions are AMAZING!!! It appears that you are burting at the seems with the joy of the Lord, such that you are impatient to get it out. That is WONDERFUL and I pray that you have that fire in you for the rest of your life..


Well, when you got a mom and dad that teach you the truth, it helps. I kindda wonder about the parents that don’t take the time to do that. What’s God gonna say to them?

Ok, WM, your turn. :P

Webmaster wrote: The gifts are not proof of salvation but rather proof of God's working in your life. Not all the gifts are obvious, such as speaking in tongues. Some are more subtle and often overlooked. Taking the testing of the spirits. That's something that you may not see unless somebody says something to you.

I would say that you might be confusing speaking in tounges as a gift of the spirit with what some say is the evidence of the baptizm of the Spirit. I don't believe that this teaching is correct. I know many good, strong, solid Christians that have never spoken in tounges when they were batized with the Spirit, but it is obvious that the Spirit is indwelling in them.

One last thing, SSG: Don't fight over something like this. For one thing it sows discord between you and the person or people you are fighting with, and in the end that could create problems for the "body" of your church. Ask questions, yes, but do so in a polite manner.

Hope this helps.


K, first I don’t really fight like yelling and stuff, I just ask questions and get no answers, so I ask more questions until somebody tells me to shut up. And when I get an answer I don’t get, I ask them to tell me what they mean or where they see that in the bible, and they say I’m talking back. I’m not, I just wanna know!

And no, it didn’t really help. Sorry. :(

K, MatthewNeal, what does assersions mean? The rest of what you said I gotta read a couple times to figure out, k?

LF, thanks for the info, but I gotta figure that out too. :?

scurtis wrote:I also must agree with Natman. Are you sure you are only 14? We all know you are, as both you and your mom have said so. You do have a spiritual maturity higher than many adults. At 14 you are in the youth dept., but I would venture a guess that you went all the way to Star of Stars in the Missionette program.


Geeezzz… I’m 13, k? If I could I’d post a pix just to show you, but mom and dad won’t let me. I didn’t like the Missionettes really. I did it for a few years, but it was kindda boring cause the girls didn’t wanna talk about nothing but hair and boys and stuff. I was there to get more than that. I attend the youth group, yeah, and that’s good. Pastor Mike, the YP, keeps telling me I gotta do some lessons sometimes. I guess, but I don’t know if I’m ready for that. He thinks I’ve got the gift of teaching and I need to use it or loose it. So maybe, some day.

Anyhow, I hope I didn’t get nobody ticked at me.

BBFN!!

SSG :blowkiss:
Being a girl is better than being a boy. WHen you're a girl all you have to do is bat your eyes and say "Please?" and you can get most boys to do anything for you! :P
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Postby jochanaan » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:53 pm

SSG, we're not "ticked;" we're awestruck at your understanding. I think the questions such as "are you really 13/14?" are the same sort of questions we graybeards ask a handsome woman who reveals her age. You know, "You can't really be 35!" :mrgreen:
Sunshine Girl wrote:...See? That’s what I mean! Why does our church say that you GOT TO speak in tounges or you’re not really saved? That’s not right at all, is it?...K, but aren’t there some gifts that still count for today? I mean, I’ve seen ppl speaking in tounges during the service and then somebody else says what it means. Course mom’s always trying to figure out if it’s from God or not. Pastor says she’s got the gift of testing the spirits or something, so I guess that works...

If a non-AOG Christian may add his perspective? I have been in charismatic churches, including a visit or two to an AOG church. I am in no way against the gifts; I've seen them in action, and I've seen them misused. (Once a man stood up and said something in a tongue, loudly; the minister called for an interpreter, then when nobody answered, told the man to shut up--exactly as I Corinthians 14 prescribes.) But many Christians get off-track in two ways: to deny the gifts, or to insist that one of them, tongues, is a necessary sign of the Holy Spirit's presence and/or baptism. Neither view is Biblical. "Are all apostles? are all prophets?...do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?...Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak wth tongues." (I Corinthians 12:29,30; 14:39)

As I've said many times, the Christian tradition is a rich, multi-hued, beautifully detailed tapestry, and it would be a tragedy to try to cut off those sections whose "colors" we don't like.
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Postby scurtis » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:13 pm

No, we are not "ticked". Sorry we got your age wrong. But it is true, you display a wisdom much beyond your years. Your parents must be very proud of you. I know I would be if you were my daughter. I do know a little about your age bracket. My oldest grandson is also 13. He had lived with me for the past 9 years before they moved out of CA.


HAPPY BIRTHDAY on Thursday
Sam (the 2nd one)

God must have a sense of humor, He made me.
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