struggling, but then a reason to go on

Are there any other issues that bother you about nudism / naturism not covered above? How can it be Christian? Other? Any question is acceptable, just keep the conversation courteous and respectful.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

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struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:38 am

I've been out of the loop here for a couple of weeks as I've revisited this whole naturism thing; maybe some of you have done the same from time to time as well. (I even thought about ending my membership here, but couldn't figure out how to do it.)

Apart from, honestly, still being uncomfortable that this is virtually an all-male group (and that this seems to be common to other online Christian-naturism groups), and with some of the issues surrounding photos, what had been troubling me the most was my wife's continued lack of participation. We share everything, and while she has totally accepted and encouraged my home naturism, she hasn't participated (and doesn't seem likely to). I know many spouses kind of pursue their naturism independently, but I was feeling less and less comfortable with going forward that way, if that makes any sense.

But the other morning, somehow the subject of nude beaches came up in conversation -- I don't even remember how, now. I didn't have a lot of time to think about how to respond, but I found myself saying something to the effect that I would have absolutely no problem with being on one -- that in fact I'd love to sometime. While she still didn't see it for herself, she -- seriously -- didn't have a problem with the idea of my doing so.

It was also clear from the conversation that she does not buy into the "nudity = sex" lie. I had not been absolutely sure about that before -- especially in relation to social nudity -- but she confirmed it. There was no sexual subtext at all in her thinking about social nudity, which frankly kind of surprised me.

Part of the conversation was about how older people look in swimsuits, so I was also able to make the point -- and she agreed -- that most people would probably look better without a suit, rather than trying to squeeze themselves into something too small or out-of-style for them.

So the fact that I had an opportunity to make it very clear, in a relaxed, non-confrontational context, "where I'm at" with naturism, and the fact that she in essence responded "that's great for you -- go ahead, really -- but not for me," encouraged me and is allowing me to go on. It was a brief exchange, but a clear and candid one, and I do think it took her understanding of my naturism, and our communication on the subject, to a needed new level.

While the conversation opened the option of pursuing social nudity independently, I also think it certainly leaves the option open -- or more open than I thought before the conversation -- of her being open to joining me in a clothing-optional setting. After our exchange, I truly think she'd be OK, given the opportunity, with her being clothed and me being unclothed, in an appropriate situation. And who knows what might happen from there. I've appreciated all of your prayers and patience as this world has opened itself to me (and us).
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:04 pm

Kalosoma,
For much of my life, I found myself the reluctant male, hesitating to adopt social nudity, despite being gently confronted by a series of female friends eager to try naturism in one form or another. That finally changed for me. I guess the cumulative effect of their persuasions finally reached critical mass and I went online to get the facts, wrote a letter of inquiry to a local resort, made a phone call and social nudity became a part of the solitary nudity I was already enjoying.

At naturist camps and resorts, I meet roughly an equal number of men and women who are both enjoying naturism and quite a few of them are brothers and sisters in Christ and quite comfortable with naturism as part of their Christian life.

Here on the Internet, I have been running into large numbers of middle-aged men with reluctant wives who come here for prayer, council and fellowship.
I guess it should not be surprising since they have nowhere else to turn.

But we get some newcomers here who think that naturism is pretty much a club for frustrated middle-aged husbands with hostile prudish wives.
I can understand how they reach that conclusion, but that has not been my experience in the wider world.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby natman » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:18 pm

Kalosoma,

Please do not get frustrated. My wife had pretty much the same attitude as yours for a while. Although she was the one who was more vocal about our spending "naked time" in and around the house, she spent far less time nude than I. It is only in the last year or so that she actually is starting to enjoy being without clothing and is often the first one undressed when we get home (it has turned into a kind of race).

She is still not (yet) open to social nudity beyond a few VERY close friends or family and I do not think she will change there unless or until she has an inadvertent exposure to it, and I am not about to press her. I am just happy to be able to spend as much time as we do together without clothing.

However, with the kids now all off to college or out of the house, and her with a job in which we may be able to actually take a vacation, perhaps we will be able to visit a European country and just happen to come across a clothing-optional beach. I think then she would see that there is nothing sinful, perverse or even to be concerned about in social nudity. She will also see that she as good or far better looking than half of the other women out there.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:51 pm

Ramblinman wrote:At naturist camps and resorts, I meet roughly an equal number of men and women who are both enjoying naturism and quite a few of them are brothers and sisters in Christ and quite comfortable with naturism as part of their Christian life.

That's encouraging to hear and is yet another affirmation that helps me move ahead.
Ramblinman wrote:...we get some newcomers here who think that naturism is pretty much a club for frustrated middle-aged husbands...

That may be part of why I've had so much of a struggle. My discovery of naturism was born (if you look back at my initial CNV posts) out of a dramatic change in body- and self-image. So the strong feelings of confidence and self-acceptance that came out of that change accompanied me on the first steps of my naturist journey. But then, to be honest, I got that first impression of "a club for frustrated middle-aged husbands," and it kind of threw some cold water on those positive feelings. Because of that first impression (whether true or not), a little part of me was saying, "there must be something 'wrong' about this, after all." I'm very thankful for those of you who have been proactive in trying to paint a different picture of this community.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:08 pm

natman wrote: I do not think she will change there unless or until she has an inadvertent exposure to it, and I am not about to press her. I am just happy to be able to spend as much time as we do together without clothing.

I'm trying to picture an "inadvertent" exposure to social nudity; I can see where that might be more off-putting than encouraging, depending on the circumstances. Maybe you can help me with a scenario or two of "inadvertence."

I am indeed happy to be able to spend the time that I am able to spend unclothed at home, even though my wife doesn't join me (except of course in those cases where she "has" to be nude); it never fails to be a blessing. And I'm especially happy that she's so accepting and encouraging. It fits with the many other reasons I love her, but I still wondered how she would respond when it became such a significant and natural part of my life.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby natman » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:40 am

KalosSoma wrote:I'm trying to picture an "inadvertent" exposure to social nudity; I can see where that might be more off-putting than encouraging, depending on the circumstances. Maybe you can help me with a scenario or two of "inadvertence."


One example would be to "accidentally" come across a nude or clothing-optional beach or resort. This is much easier to to in Europe than in America because so many of the beaches in Europe are either topless, clothing-optional or completely nude.

The same would be true for European saunas. Many Eurpoean hotels have clothing-optional or nude-only saunas for their guests.

Another could occur when my wife gets together with some of her friends for an afternoon in our backyard spa. There have been hints by them of skinnydipping, although they have not yet carried it through. However, because of the privacy of our back yard, I feel that it may likely happen in the not too distant future.

My wife told me that she was one of the girls that shyed away from the forced showers after PE in junior high and high school (I, on the other hand, was apprehensive for about 15 seconds.). I think that it is that initial shock of seeing and being seen by others that most people are apprehensive about. After that, one quickly realizes that we are all human and that we come in all shapes, sizes and colors.... so what?
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:29 am

If two female friends can't bring themselves to skinny dip in a backyard pool and sunbathe nude in a private back yard where one of them lives,
body acceptance seems a long way off, but we can and should persist in prayer about this.

I know of two instances where teenage girls are so chummy that they shared the bathtub when one of them visited the other for the weekend.
They are not nudist nor lesbian, by the way.

In my extended family, (not nudist), there has been some night time skinny dipping on summer trips to the lake.
The cover of darkness can help take a lot of the shyness out of people.
It was a critical step in my own journey as well.

I have some friends in Florida who had an epiphany about social nudity when they stumbled upon Apollo Beach at Canaveral National Seashore.
It was a very positive experience for them, I just wish, as Nathan said, that nude beaches were not so rare in the USA.

Our community pool requires a shower before you swim and most patrons comply.
There's a curtain on the shower stall, but no private changing area.
You put your clothes in the locker, lock it, walk to the shower stall nude or wrapped in your towel,
and in either case, hang the towel on the hook before you enter the stall.
It is the same for women so I hear.
Admittedly a timid form of nudity and confined to the same sex, but it might be a baby step that some of the shyest folks would benefit from.
Well, almost 100% same sex, but fathers sometimes bring their pre-school daughters in to shower with them and women do the same with young sons in the ladies shower.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby jochanaan » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:08 pm

Many stories I've read online suggest that the most "reluctant" women converts to nudism become the most enthusiastic ones. It has been said that many women get "dragged kicking and screaming" to nudist resorts--and leave the same way. :D


Also, I have made no secret of my nudism on Facebook and have joined several nudist groups. Many of them include nearly as many women as men, and some of the women are among nudism's most articulate and passionate advocates. (Think Melissa DejaNude. 8) )



And at the last nude swim I visited here in Denver, there was a near-parity of men and women.



So it's not nearly as bad as the participation here makes it look.8)
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby natman » Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:17 am

Ramblinman wrote:If two female friends can't bring themselves to skinny dip in a backyard pool and sunbathe nude in a private back yard where one of them lives, body acceptance seems a long way off, but we can and should persist in prayer about this.


In my wife's case, there are three women involved (so far). One is a bubbly blond who is absolutely NOT ashamed of her body. The other is a more "clothing-conscious" and very reserved woman with several health issue who has the fear of death when it comes to letting natural sunlight touch her skin, despite the many times we have discussed the benefits of attainging Vitamin D through sun exposure.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby Larryk1052 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:12 pm

kalosSoma, you are in a better position with your wife and your naturism than many others. At least she is open to you enjoying it. I understand being frustrated because you share so much with her. In time she might see the joy you have and perhaps she may even read some about naturism and her real objection might be addressed. In the mean time find a time and place in your life to continue enjoying nudism, just don't do it to the exclusion of everything else you two share in common.


Change the interest for perspective. Does a man who loves to fish stop fishing because his wife hates it and will not go? Most of the time the man continues to find time to fish. He probally doesn't fish as often as he would like, but he works out an arrangement his wife is comfortable with.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby jude700 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:59 pm

natman wrote:In my wife's case, there are three women involved (so far). One is a bubbly blond who is absolutely NOT ashamed of her body. The other is a more "clothing-conscious" and very reserved woman with several health issue who has the fear of death when it comes to letting natural sunlight touch her skin, despite the many times we have discussed the benefits of attainging Vitamin D through sun exposure.



When visiting Sunrays Hills in Wisconsin some years back one of the women wore a long sleeve sweat shirt & pants as she was sensitive to the sun and would break out in a rash. Truly feel sorry for these individuals.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby Ramblinman » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:51 am

For the life of me, I don't understand why a woman with sun phobia would accept an invitation to a daytime pool party and then complain about being in the sun.

Either have the thing at night or leave her out of it.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:10 am

jochanaan wrote:I have made no secret of my nudism on Facebook and have joined several nudist groups. Many of them include nearly as many women as men, and some of the women are among nudism's most articulate and passionate advocates.

I'd love to do this, and would love to know which Facebook naturism/nudism groups or "likes" are "safe." The ones I've seen just from doing searches for the words "nudism" or "naturism" invariably contain posts or links to inappropriate people or sites.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:24 am

Larryk1052 wrote:Change the interest for perspective. Does a man who loves to fish stop fishing because his wife hates it and will not go? Most of the time the man continues to find time to fish. He probally doesn't fish as often as he would like, but he works out an arrangement his wife is comfortable with.

This is a great point and one I've never thought of before! Yet another CNV blessing. I wonder if our reluctance to think of naturism in this way has something to do with that nagging "nudity = sex" fallacy; that is, that naturism has an element that makes it more "sensitive" than any other lifestyle choice or passionate interest. Seems like your fishing analogy would serve to ease a lot of residual guilt or timidity that a naturist might have in expressing his or her naturism -- and freeing him or her to pursue it independently. Not to the detriment of the marriage, of course, as you wisely point out; there may be as many marriages that have been stressed by fishing as naturism! :-)
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:33 am

natman wrote:Another could occur when my wife gets together with some of her friends for an afternoon in our backyard spa. There have been hints by them of skinnydipping, although they have not yet carried it through. However, because of the privacy of our back yard, I feel that it may likely happen in the not too distant future.

Truthfully, this is the scenario I find most likely, if it's to happen at all. Though the subject has never come up between them, my wife does have a close friend who (1) is enough of an overall "free spirit" and risk-taker to be potentially open to it and (2) who is a strong enough personality that I think if anyone could persuade my wife to try it, she could. I certainly wouldn't intervene, suggest or apply pressure of any kind, but maybe I should be praying for my wife's friend as well as my wife in this matter! :-)
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