struggling, but then a reason to go on

Are there any other issues that bother you about nudism / naturism not covered above? How can it be Christian? Other? Any question is acceptable, just keep the conversation courteous and respectful.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby natman » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:12 pm

KalosSoma wrote:...maybe I should be praying for my wife's friend as well as my wife in this matter! :-)


Well there you go. Problem as good as solved. :D
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Nathan Powers

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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby jochanaan » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:19 pm

It seems to me, KalosSoma, that the "issue" is not merely what you do, but what you believe. Even if you never go to a "naturist event," you have already changed your mind about the natural human body; how can you go back to the old shame-based beliefs and behaviors, if you ever subscribed to them? It's almost like asking you not to believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead despite the convincing evidence you have seen, read, heard and believed. :shock:
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:56 pm

Absolutely -- a change of mind and heart. Even if I worked the rest of my life in an Antarctic research station with 10 layers of clothing on all the time, I'd still be a naturist! 8)
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby nuudman » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:06 am

KalosSoma wrote:Absolutely -- a change of mind and heart. Even if I worked the rest of my life in an Antarctic research station with 10 layers of clothing on all the time, I'd still be a naturist! 8)

Yep! me too. i am a naturist in all weather condidtions. Being naked is just too important a part of who i am as a Christian and as a man.

NEW!!!

OUR GOD IS GREATER-Chris Tomlin

GOD OF THIS CITY-Chris Tomlin


These two songs are very indicative of the church i serve at. "GOD OF THIS CITY" is almost like our informal anthem.

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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:35 am

nuudman wrote:Being naked is just too important a part of who i am as a Christian and as a man.

Wow - that sums up a lot, right there. There's so much about "nakedness" that is indeed integral to being both a Christian and a man: Openness, honesty, vulnerability, freedom, confidence, integrity (i.e. nothing hidden; what's on the outside is the same as what's on the inside), acceptance (of self and others). No wonder Christianity and naturism are such a "good fit."

And, come to think of it, could that be a reason why, in general, men seem to "get it" before women do? Aside from the "negatives" that keep women away from naturism (e.g. body image issues), could there be "positives" that naturally draw men to naturism? That would explain a lot.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby jochanaan » Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:55 pm

KalosSoma wrote:
nuudman wrote:Being naked is just too important a part of who i am as a Christian and as a man.

Wow - that sums up a lot, right there. There's so much about "nakedness" that is indeed integral to being both a Christian and a man: Openness, honesty, vulnerability, freedom, confidence, integrity (i.e. nothing hidden; what's on the outside is the same as what's on the inside), acceptance (of self and others). No wonder Christianity and naturism are such a "good fit."

And, come to think of it, could that be a reason why, in general, men seem to "get it" before women do? Aside from the "negatives" that keep women away from naturism (e.g. body image issues), could there be "positives" that naturally draw men to naturism? That would explain a lot.
I would not say "men" in general, but rather certain men who value transparency and have little to hide. Others may differ strongly. In fact, in my "offline" life, I know several couples where the woman took to naturism while the man shunned it!

I suspect that, at heart, it's a power/mastery thing. Mark Twain said, "Clothes make the man," but in my observations, they make the leader of men (whether he's a worthy leader or not), the rich ruler, the corporate executive. Now, some executive types may be fully conscious that they put on a role with their clothes, and rejoice when they can take it off at a naturist thing--but lots of those types confuse their role with themselves. Nakedness would not be a freeing thing for them, but an ultimate shame... very different from most of the men here, who value freedom and honesty above nearly everything. 8)
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:10 pm

jochanaan wrote:I know several couples where the woman took to naturism while the man shunned it!

I can see that; I know several (non-naturist) couples in which that would be the case, and probably for the reasons you suggest. How one clothes oneself, and views clothing, may indeed have a lot to do with control (of one's self-image, status, relationships, etc.) -- remember the "dress for success" guy? If you're a man who really buys into that, think of the fear, even terror, that might come with taking off your clothes (even though you'd really try not to let it show).

In that context, it's interesting that since God took away my lifelong self-image handicap and led me to discover naturism, my professional/business relationships have improved as well. Being so much more "comfortable in my own skin" has helped both strengthen and humanize those relationships. Not sure how that works, but it's been undeniable.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby natman » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:15 pm

It might also be interesting to note that some of the most powerful "dress for success" people also enjoyed being nude.

John F. Kennedy
Jackie Kennedy
Aristotal Onasis

Several other US Presidents and leaders:
Benjamin Franklin, U. S. statesman and inventor
John Quincy Adams, U. S. President
John F. Kennedy, US president
Senator Ted Kennedy
Theodore Roosevelt
Lyndon Johnson
Patrick "Tip" O'Neal, speaker of the house
Winston Churchill

Several high-dollar movie stars, singers and composers:
Jim backus, actor, voice of mr. magoo
gloria stewart, actress from titanic
Matt Millen, Raiders Football Player
Lynn Redgrave, actress
Elle MacPherson, Australian model and actress
P.J. Harvey, singer
Robbie Williams
Fred Rogers of Mister Rogers’ neighborhood
Kevin Bacon, actor
barry manelow, singer
duke and duchess of windsor
John Ball ( donald johnson ) writer of “in the heat of the night’
Lady godiva
kurt weill, composer
charles f.  richter, inventor of the richter scale
LOUISE BRooks, actress
erin grey, actress buck rogers
Christina Aguilera
Pamela Anderson
Jennifer Aniston
Christopher Atkins
Kevin Bacon
Oksana Baiul
Drew Barrymore
Tyra Banks
Bella Bartok, composer
Amanda Beard
alexander graham bell, inventor
Jack Black
Lara Flynn Boyle
Christy Brinkley
Melanie Brown (Spice Girl)
Jimmy Buffett
Kelly Clarkson
Nadia Comaneci
Billy Connolly
Paul Daniels (magician)
ted danson
Rosario Dawson
dom delouise
Johnny Depp
Athena Demos
Alan Dershowitz
Cameron Diaz
Celine Dion
Tate Donovan from “damages’
Erica Durance
Marianne Faithful
Ralph Fiennes
Colin Farrel
Colin Fletcher
Flea (Bassist - Red Hot Chili Peppers)
Peter Fonda
Matthew Fox
Jamie Foxx
Rebecca Gayheart
Theodore Geisel ( Dr. Seuss ), Author
Ian Gillian (Lead Singer - Deep Purple)
Jeff Goldblum
Cuba Gooding Jr
laura graham
Amy Grant
Macy Gray
Linda Hamilton
Tom Hanks
Daryl Hannah
Woody Harrelson
Melissa Joan Hart
PJ Harvey
Goldie Hawn
Mariel Hemingway
Kate Hudson
Kate Humble (BBC presenter "Autumn Kate")
Elizabeth Hurley
Jade Jagger
Janet Jackson
Famke Janssen
Ashley Judd
Nicole Kidman, actress
Mollie King (British singer/musician)
Heidi Klum, model
Kiera Knightly
Olga Korbut, olympic gold medalist
Ali Larter, actress on heroes
Avril Lavigne
Jennifer Lopez
Mario Lopez
Ludacris
Madonna
Barry Manilow, singer & songwriter
Matthew McConaughey
Andie MacDowell
Ewan McGregor
Sir Ian McKellen
Sarah McLachlan
Patrick McNee
Elle McPherson
Christopher Meloni
Helen Mirren
Demi Moore
Alanis Morrisette, singer
Kate Moss, model
Jack Nicholson, actor
Hayden Panettiere
Paloma Picasso
Pink
Brad Pitt
Sidney Pollock, actor & director
Jamie Pressly
Sheryl Lee Ralph
Lynn Redgrave
Sara Rue
Kurt Russell
Seal
Claudia Schiffer
Jerry Seinfeld
Jane Seymour, actress
Shakira
Sherri Shepherd
Alicia Silverstone
Britney Spears
Princess Stephanie (Monaco)
Patrick Stewart
Charlize Theron
Emma Thompson
Uma Thurman
Justin Timberlake
Robbie Williams
Bruce Willis
Amy Winehouse, singer
Katrina Witt, olympic gold medal winner
Adrian Young (Drummer - No Doubt)
Josephine Baker, singer, dancer & actress
Isadora Duncan, dancer
Spalding Gray, author & monologist
Robert A. Heinlein, author
Margaux Hemingway, actress
Ernest Hemingway, writer
Alfred Hitchcock, director
Lyndon Johnson, us president
James Mason, actor
George Orwell, writer
Rod Sirling, writer & creator of the outer limits
Henry David Thoreau, writer
Walt Whitman, writer


And that' just the short list. :D
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby trumpetbuff » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:24 pm

Wow, Nathan...that's a lot of famous nudists...i'm wondering what source lists all these?

Steve

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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby natman » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:30 am

Just do a Google search on "famous nudists" or "famous naturists" and you will come of with MANY sources.

This list came from travasuns.org.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:26 pm

That is quite a list. You wonder, though, how "serious" many of them may be about naturism as a lifestyle. I have a feeling at least some of the celebrities on the list may be on there just because of being seen unclothed at a fancy private resort, or indicating in an interview that they've enjoyed those kinds of experiences in public or private, but more as a perk of the rich-and-famous lifestyle than actually "practicing naturism," if that makes any sense. I think Helen Mirren is one who has actually talked about embracing naturism as a lifestyle, but there may be others.

It's very sad, of course, but to be expected, that almost no one from the "Christian community" is represented in the list. I think the Amy Grant citation is solely because of a Ladies Home Journal interview back in the '80s or early '90s in which she mentioned playing unclothed on a secluded beach in Africa (not knowing it wasn't clothing-optional). I haven't seen anything else from her that would indicate that naturism is a lifestyle choice for her, but I do admire her for sharing that experience.

As I think I've suggested on here before, what it's going to take to shake up Christians enough as a group to begin accepting naturism is for someone high-profile and respected to "come out" -- on the level of a Max Lucado, a Beth Moore, a Twila Paris. No evidence that any of them are, but you never know! (Of course, it's the "you never know" part that needs to change...)
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby Ramblinman » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:55 pm

KalosSoma,

I have no idea who Twila Paris is. I have heard the name Beth Moore, but don't know anything about her and I know that Max Lucado is an author, but I have never read any of his books nor have talked to anyone who has. But if they have some influence among American Christians and were to speak boldly and positively about incorporating nudity into their everyday life at home and are regular participants at nudist parks, that would certainly give people reason to consider the matter for themselves. In some circles admitting that much "exposure" might generate negative backlash, but we are never going to reach some of the strictest hard-shells with this message. It is the broader group of evangelicals we hope to persuade.

To be fair to the person who posted this list, let's not say that it is a list of die-hard naturists, but simply a list of celebrities who admit enjoying a moment or two of nudity at some point in their past.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby KalosSoma » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:30 pm

I wasn't being critical of the list; they can be very valuable, if only to get people thinking, and saying, "Well, if (s)he does it, it must be cool." I guess my name-checks show how much time I've spent in the evangelical "ghetto." Beth Moore is a well-known Bible teacher and speaker, mainly to women, who comes out of the Southern Baptist world; Twila Paris is a "contemporary Christian" singer/songwriter who's been around forever.
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby jochanaan » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:13 pm

Ramblinman wrote:...I have no idea who Twila Paris is...
Twila Paris site
Among her best-known songs are "How Beautiful," "He Is Exalted," "We Will Glorify," and the timeless "Lamb of God."
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Re: struggling, but then a reason to go on

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:03 am

jochanaan wrote:
Ramblinman wrote:...I have no idea who Twila Paris is...
Twila Paris site
Among her best-known songs are "How Beautiful," "He Is Exalted," "We Will Glorify," and the timeless "Lamb of God."


Thanks, Jochanaan! That helps me understand who she is.
We've sung some of these off of overhead projectors in church. I had no idea who wrote them. Mighty fine music!
Our music minister may be in trouble for not giving her credit! :oops:

I would love for Twila's next song to be about how naturism glorifies the Lord!

Maybe Max Lucado could write a book about a man who discovers naturism and finds out how it helps his walk with Christ.

And Beth Moore could teach women the principles of body acceptance and the goodness of nudity.
(for all I know, she already does teach these things).
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