Still struggling...

Are there any other issues that bother you about nudism / naturism not covered above? How can it be Christian? Other? Any question is acceptable, just keep the conversation courteous and respectful.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

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Re: Still struggling...

Postby KalosSoma » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:44 am

natman wrote:...there are a few sites that provide images of simple, non-sexual nudity, such as this one and naturist-christians.org among a few others. I would recommend just sticking to those.

I know some of you participate in it, but I've explored Naturist Christians enough to be really leery of it. It really strikes me as one of those "cover" sites. If you know something redeeming about it or its keepers that I don't, please fill me in; my perception is open to revision.

Here's what's been on my mind in recent days, and what I really wanted to ask: How would you (anyone here) react to the argument that CNV (or other similar naturist forums) lacks credibility to the extent that it lacks female participation? The last post even in the "for women only" section is more than three years old. "Where are they, and why?" was one of my first questions when I came here. The lack of an answer still troubles me. (There seems to have been more female participation in CNV's first years, and I still wonder, too, what accounted for the drop-off. If women were here, and left for some reason, that's even more troubling than if they were never here in the first place.)
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Re: Still struggling...

Postby natman » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:12 pm

KalosSoma wrote:I know some of you participate in it, but I've explored Naturist Christians enough to be really leery of it. It really strikes me as one of those "cover" sites. If you know something redeeming about it or its keepers that I don't, please fill me in; my perception is open to revision.


I am not sure what you mean by "cover sites". I am one of the MODs and the ADMIN for that site, and I can tell you that those who are managing that site are as committed to pure, Christian naturism as we are here. ANYONE who even remotely tries to offer anything that would be unacceptible scripturally is usually dealt with quickly. The only difference between the two is the primary focus. NC has historically been more focused on "naturism" and topics related to "naturism", whereas CNV is primarily focused on "Christianity". However, the founder of the NC site, a Quaker, has been gradually backing off from active duty and has been allowing greater latitude in discussions about Christian beliefs unrelated to naturism.

Also, the NC site has a far more extensive collection of naturist photos which had been collected by it's founder over many years and which are currently being refiltered and catalogued after a major system crash last year. Any photo which even hints of sexuality is immediately removed.

KalosSoma wrote:Here's what's been on my mind in recent days, and what I really wanted to ask: How would you (anyone here) react to the argument that CNV (or other similar naturist forums) lacks credibility to the extent that it lacks female participation?


I do not see how that affects our "credibility". Unfortunately, it is just a fact that women are less likely to get involved in these types of forum media and are more suppressed about their desires to be comfortably nude than men. We are trying to change that perception, but those are simply the facts.

This site offers plenty of Scriptural and practical evidence and advice on the benefits and sinlessness of simple, practical nudity.

One of the reasons we do not have more (any) women here right now is because we are already so prominently "male". I think that women are simply not comfortable posting under such circumstances, and I do not know how to attract more women otherwise. It is very similar to what happens in clothing optional resorts when they do not maintain some level of gender-balance. After a while, the women simply quit coming.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: Still struggling...

Postby KalosSoma » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:36 pm

I apologize - I didn't realize there was that strong a connection between CNV and N-C. I'll give it another chance. I think it's mainly the photos over there that have been putting me off; I hope the "refiltering and cataloguing" does indeed set a pretty high bar. I found the photos that were user-generated generally less objectionable than some of those that seem to have been aggregated from other sites, publications or "stock" sources.

I understand that you, too, are frustrated by the lack of female participation. But it seems that since there are a fair number of couples represented here -- that is, couples in which it's clear that both husband and wife enjoy naturism, whether social or not -- that the female half of the couple could be encouraged to have a voice now and then -- maybe even in posts where both partners are represented. (That could be kind of fun!) More so than in a case like mine, where my wife is comfortable with my nudity but does not consider herself a naturist.

I may be a little different than most of you here in that while I have a wonderful marriage (27 years this Friday!), most of my closest and longest friendships are with women; I like how women think, value their judgments and perspectives, and communicate better with women generally than men. So I miss that input and that perspective, when it comes to something that's become as important a part of my life as naturism.
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Re: Still struggling...

Postby natman » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:02 pm

I have tried on numerous occasions to get my wife to post here. Unfortunately, she wants nothing to do with online social networks beyond email, and she tends to keep that to a very tight few. It may have to do with alot of the drama that she has seen our kids go through as they experimented with MySpace and Facebook. I think that a lot of women are of the same mindset.

There are generally a whole lot more male internet bloggers than there are female. I think it is because, while we tend to be more shy in person than women, we are generally more comfortable expressing our opionions online. Women are more comfortable communicating face to face.

The best thing that I can recommend is that you direct as many women to this site as you can, altough I prefer to be less gender specific.
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Re: Still struggling...

Postby KalosSoma » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:30 am

CnSnC wrote:..."social" usually doesn't involve discussions on religion, politics or anything like that where most of the men will easily get into those types of discussions.....when not talking about hunting and fishing and sports.

Good thoughts - thanks. Maybe one reason I communicate better with women is that I can't stand discussing religion and politics (and don't hunt, don't fish and have a limited interest in sports). Ironically, maybe in naturism I've found a topic I can actually discuss with guys...
CnSnC wrote:...she sees no need to discuss it where as men seem to need to discuss it often, almost like they need constant reassurance or feel the need to explain why they enjoy every nude moment.

Also interesting. It almost sounds like once they get past the body-image issue, which is huge for most women, ultimately naturism is more... well... natural to women than it is to men. It's not a topic of discussion, it just "is" -- part of life. That would be nice if I could get to that point.

Maybe it still comes down to the newness of naturism, for me. Your thought kind of reminds me of a quote I read in the early days of "gay liberation," when an older, less-radical gay man ruefully said something to the effect of "Homosexuality used to be known as 'the love that dare not speak its name,' and now it's 'the love that won't shut up.'" (Not try to start anything about homosexuality here, just think it's an apt quote that could apply to a lot of different things when people gain a new awareness of them.)

Maybe the solution to my doubts and fears is simply to be unclothed as much as I can, whenever I can, and the more I experience it the less I'll feel compelled to talk about it.
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Re: Still struggling...

Postby natman » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:27 pm

KalosSoma wrote:It almost sounds like once they (women) get past the body-image issue, which is huge for most women, ultimately naturism is more... well... natural to women than it is to men. It's not a topic of discussion, it just "is" -- part of life.{/quote]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head.

KalosSoma wrote:Maybe the solution to my doubts and fears is simply to be unclothed as much as I can, whenever I can, and the more I experience it the less I'll feel compelled to talk about it.


I HOPE that is not the case, however, I think it is the norm. I have been on this and other sights for about ten years now. I have noticed a pattern of people coming to the site all excited about what they have just discovered, spending several months or so, and then disappearing all together. The process is much quicker for women.

Initially, I came on the other side of the fence, arguing that nudity was likely not compatible with Scripture and questioning how to deal with lust etc. However, it did not take long (probably because, although I argued against it, I have always felt in my heart that there was nothing wrong with mere nudity), before I was challenged to actually READ what the Bible does and particularly does NOT say about nudity, and how, in fact, nudity had been used, even commanded by God. At any rate, for the first few years, my discussion were almost exclusively about nudity. Now, they are more about Christianity and Biblical interpretation.

And, it is not because nudity has become less important to me. Rather, it has become more of a natural part of me, like eating, sleeping, working, recreating and relaxing.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: Still struggling...

Postby KalosSoma » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:58 pm

natman wrote:I have noticed a pattern of people coming to the site all excited about what they have just discovered, spending several months or so, and then disappearing all together.

I also hope that's not the case with my involvement here. Ultimately, if I can get through the sometimes rough waters of newbieness, I'd like to stick around and eventually maybe even be of some help to other newbies, as you all have been with me thus far.
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Re: Still struggling...

Postby Nuderunner » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:34 am

Happy anniversary KalosSoma! I would like to echo Natman that this site, and it's sister site are indeed the "real deal". Hope you do stay and become one of the folks here.
Jim



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Re: Still struggling...

Postby Petros » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:53 am

natman wrote:I have tried on numerous occasions to get my wife to post here. Unfortunately, she wants nothing to do with online social networks beyond email, and she tends to keep that to a very tight few. It may have to do with alot of the drama that she has seen our kids go through as they experimented with MySpace and Facebook. I think that a lot of women are of the same mindset.

There are generally a whole lot more male internet bloggers than there are female. I think it is because, while we tend to be more shy in person than women, we are generally more comfortable expressing our opionions online. Women are more comfortable communicating face to face.

The best thing that I can recommend is that you direct as many women to this site as you can, altough I prefer to be less gender specific.



The point about women's online communication is well taken. My wife would not be here in any case, having problems with nudity especially her own, but if she WERE visiting the village regularly you would still never hear from her. She READS a wide variety of blogs - a lot more online reading than I do. But writing - besides email to about four relatives [myself included] she posts maybe one comment every other month, and then only when something truly offensive / idiotic was said.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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