Thoughts from an Christian ex-nudist

Are there any other issues that bother you about nudism / naturism not covered above? How can it be Christian? Other? Any question is acceptable, just keep the conversation courteous and respectful.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

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Re: Thoughts from an Christian ex-nudist

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:20 pm

Ok, I am in an irritable mood today as I am recovering (I hope) From a nasty painful stubborn infection. So I am going to set aside some of my constraints and rip the arguments of the
"Naked for Christ? Christian Nudism
Anonymous
Guest Author"


Guest Author wrote:Most of the couples are at the club that won't let singles in, so all the single guys wind up together where they are welcomed. So the first real problem with Christian nudism is it harms marriages. Those involved are so "into" it that they will deny this point. I speak from experience. I have heard the many, many stories of family problems. Real life stories, not theory.
Give me a break! This is blatant victim blaming. The marriages are being put under stress because of the hardened hearts of the religionists who say they guide their life by the bible and then add grievous burdens.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
These modern day Pharisees claim to believe the bible and teach it but :
Mark 7: 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
They do nothing different from what the Pharisees did, they make up doctrines to "hedge about the law" and regard their doctrines as superior to the scripture.

Guest Author wrote: Nudists will also say "it's not about sex." But we see that both the Bible and biology say otherwise:
Scripture: When God give us a list, in Leviticus, of people we are not to have sex with (incest), He does not say "don't have sex." Instead, He tells us not to "uncover" or "discover" their nakedness. Given how explicit God is in other parts of the Bible, we cannot dismiss this as a euphemism designed to avoid talking plainly.
Plainly ??? do you even know what "Plainly" is???
What is plain is that a euphemism is being used
You refer to
Given how explicit God is in other parts of the Bible......
Do you have some inspired new translation that the rest of us have not heard of ??? The bible is full of difficult phrases to understand. The entirety of the Leviticus 18 passage (which you seem to have been so inept a workman that you could not even take time to cite by chapter and verse so we could be sure we knew exactly what you were talking about) Is couched in terminology of what a man should not to do certain women (or in a few cases to other men via doing it to that man's wife). And is clearly about gaining access to her vagina in order to have sex with her. As in "You!, man, Don't you take her clothes off to have sex with her" Is that plain enough for you now? It means do not take her clothes off to have sex with her! Yes it is a euphemism and a rather explicitly well understood one at that.

As for your claim that meaning is plain, anyone that tries to say that all of the bible after millennia and multiple translations and re-translations is plain when it is using an ancient turn of phrase euphemism translated from an ancient language to a modern language is a theological nincompoop! It might be in some cases but it is necessary for one to show convincing evidence that it is so in that case.

Guest Author wrote: The second big problem is the effect on your Christian witness and ministry. There are two kinds of Christian naturists. Those who "keep the big secret," and those who don't. Let's look at what happens to the secret naturists first.

They find they cannot trust the other members of their church. They have to make up excuses for where they were last weekend. They don't invite Church friends to their home. Their real friends are their nudist friends.
Well of course there is a problem trusting the other members! Those other members have been steeped in man made doctrine taught to them by incompetent Pharisaical leaders who made up doctrine not found in the bible and traceable all the way back to the Garden of Eden when the serpent left Adam and Eve with the notion that they were naked and something was wrong with that. What is appalling is that so many of these Pharisees actually believe that they are Bible Believing / Bible Adherent / Faithful interpreters of the word who teach for doctrine the commandments of men. Naturism has not made it impossible to trust these other church members! Their Pharisaical leaders have done that!

Guest Author wrote: After I became good friends with several Christian nudist couples I learned they were using false names at the clubs and on the Internet. When they came to trust me they told me their real names. The secret keepers have to get the kids involved in keeping the secret also. They come to see Christian brothers and sisters as potential judges. And they are correct.
Well, you said something correct that time, their brothers and sisters are often judges, and unqualified ones at that!
God tells us
---John 6:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgement.
and:
---Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
And seeing as how there is no commandment condemning naturism (by your own admission) you seem, and the church members they do not trust seem, to be judging based on the inferior commandments of men!

Guest Author wrote: Those who are open about their nudism find they are judged at their church. I know of one couple who were very active in youth ministries. Nudism eventually led to their quitting that church (which had a very dim view of nudism) and moving to another where they were not involved with youth (and where they kept their secret). I know of another couple who were very involved with the music ministry at their church. When their nudist beliefs became known they were told they could not be involved with any church ministries until they repented.
This is nothing new. 2000 years ago Jesus upbraided the Pharisees of his time as being "Whited Sepulchres full of dead men's bones". Referring to their false righteousness filled with corrupt doctrine and belief. This is mostly to be laid at the foot of the pastors, who when questions arise, preach man made precepts rather than laying out the truth of God's word because they themselves are afraid of being judged and losing their pay check, so they preach smooth words and "go with the flow" of the hypocrites who call the tune in the congregation.

Guest Author wrote: I could tell you other stories also. I know a woman who was very upset that her young niece, of whom she was very fond, was no longer allowed to visit them at their home when extended family found out her husband had become a nudist. I know of another woman whose sister will not visit her after she and her husband became nudists. The breaking up of family ties is not good fruit.
Pharisees have always with great swelling pompous self righteousness heaped their usurped authority on others just to build their own reputation. You are again shifting the blame to the victims and not the domineering, unjust, unrighteous, biblically ignorant, self-righteous perpetrators.
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Let these swelling pompous self-appointed minions of righteousness bring forth true condemnation from scripture. If they don't want nudity in their own home that is fine, but don't demean or condemn those who are OK with naturism for sinning when it is no such thing.


Guest Author wrote: Remember earlier when I said it is not about sex for most nudists? For many it is. About 40% of nudists are swingers. This is something Christian nudists just have to live with. You will get invited to swing if you are part of a couple and frequent different resorts. You just say no and they leave you alone. But you will be asked. Another 40% of nudists think the 40% that swing give the whole lifestyle a bad name.
That which is presented without proof may be denied without proof!
Someone once said that 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot to win the argument at hand.
Bring forth your proof and we will see how much you adhere to the truth of this matter. I personally have never been asked. Part of your database is missing. How long must one be at a naturist venue to be asked? I make it quite clear that I am a Christian Naturist. I have never been asked! I reject your assertion and its statistics. If it happened I would report it promptly and if nothing was done about it I would not go there again.

Guest Author wrote: Nudists will also say "it's not about sex." But we see that both the Bible and biology say otherwise:
I believe that if the Bible said it was about sex, you could have shown chapter and verse that would make you point. Since you did not I doubt that you are making a biblical theological argument at all.

As to biology saying it is all about sex I have yet to see a woman who's butt turns bright red when she is fertile, and although that does happen for some anthropoid species they are not humans made in God's image. But biologists are mostly evolutionists and many of them are also humanists who would find it convenient to argue that promiscuous sex is the standard for all anthropomorphic species, however I would take that as self serving wishful thinking on their part.

To put a figure of speech to it I would say most of your argument is about the quality of organic fertilizer that is fresh enough to not have composted yet

Epilogue
I usually do not answer a fool according to his folly but just in case these arguments might be pompously repeated with the author becoming insufferable and wise in his own conceits I thought it worth taking a shot at some of the more glaring stuff.

Bare_Truth
It is not enough to believe in God, one must BELIEVE GOD
I never met anyone that I could not learn something from.
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Re: Thoughts from an Christian ex-nudist

Postby Maverick » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:25 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:Ok, I am in an irritable mood today as I am recovering (I hope) From a nasty painful stubborn infection. So I am going to set aside some of my constraints and rip the arguments of the
"Naked for Christ? Christian Nudism
Anonymous
Guest Author"


...

To put a figure of speech to it I would say most of your argument is about the quality of organic fertilizer that is fresh enough to not have composted yet

Epilogue
I usually do not answer a fool according to his folly but just in case these arguments might be pompously repeated with the author becoming insufferable and wise in his own conceits I thought it worth taking a shot at some of the more glaring stuff.

Bare_Truth
It is not enough to believe in God, one must BELIEVE GOD


Bare_Truth, thank you for ripping the arguments up. Your insight is, well, insightful--to me at least. Even before I was a naturist I knew the Leviticus 18 verses were figures of speech/euphemisms for sexual relations, not for denuding oneself or others. (An interesting comparison is Ham seeing his father Noah naked in Genesis 9, which I tend to think implies something more than just walking in on someone in their natural state.)
In nuditate veritas.
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Re: Thoughts from an Christian ex-nudist

Postby Petros » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:31 pm

Given how explicit God is in other parts of the Bible......


Oh yes. As in the very explicit 2 Kings 9:8
For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel:
and the explicit Judges 3:24
Surely he covereth his feet in his summer chamber.
.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Thoughts from an Christian ex-nudist

Postby jochanaan » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:17 pm

We can defend our views and practices from the Bible itself, with human reasoning and direct testimony--if we are allowed to speak. But in my experience, we are mostly not allowed to answer their arguments. They'd rather take as given that we're lost sinners than be forced to acknowledge that we're right and they're wrong.
You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
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Re: Thoughts from an Christian ex-nudist

Postby Petros » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:19 am

This, I think, is why some claim the church suffers from an infestation of Gnosticism. It is a far too human tendency to strut around holding the Book of the Ascended Masters that explains everything in uncompromising black and white, putting thde unillumined in their place. Much more fun than looking at reality and asking "What DOES God mean by that?'
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Thoughts from an Christian ex-nudist

Postby jochanaan » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:37 am

Petros wrote:This, I think, is why some claim the church suffers from an infestation of Gnosticism. It is a far too human tendency to strut around holding the Book of the Ascended Masters that explains everything in uncompromising black and white, putting thde unillumined in their place. Much more fun than looking at reality and asking "What DOES God mean by that?'
Yep, thinking for yourself is hard. And dangerous. Especially if you're good at it. :shock:
You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
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