Fellowship Service

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Fellowship Service

Postby Bare_Truth » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:29 pm

I am reminded of the scripture
In chapter 4 and verse 8, quoting God, Hosea wrote:My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
which is a lament of God but we Christian Naturists can use the same words.
The title of this strip comes from the term that John Kundert used for the feature of Fig Leaf Forum used to offer to its registered Christian Naturists. I recently looked at what remains of That web site and was looking at the map that was part of the Fellowship Service.
Fellowship_US_Canada.jpg

This Canada/US map showed the location of Christian Naturists across North America that were registered on the Fig Leaf Forum Site who wanted to be able to use the Fellowship Service feature.

Just to refresh my memory I wrote to John for a clarification of the red versus yellow markers, and he responded.
The founder of Fig Leaf Forum, John Kundert wrote:Your interpretation of the yellow and red
symbols is mostly correct. Yellow symbols indicate multiple readers living close
to one another. They do not indicate clubs or associations.
The red blocks being those solo members with different town/village/suburb/zip code/etc. addresses.

When I zoomed the map, I discovered that my location had a yellow block. not a red one. My home state of Missouri looks like this.
Fellowship_Missouri.jpg
Fellowship_Missouri.jpg (27.74 KiB) Viewed 5199 times
There are 15 red blocks and 11 yellow blocks In Missouri and its border towns. Since each yellow block indicates at least 2 or more, there are 37 or more Missouri Christian Naturists registered with Fig Leaf Forum as of its last update, and at least one more besides myself in my immediate region. What is worse, I have never met this/these person(s).

Along with this map the fellowship also listed the town/suburb/city names, and their pass codes. By sending a pm to the web site one could request a contact and include a brief blurb about one's self and why you want to make contact. This would be forwarded to the individual you wanted to contact and if they replied to the forum that they were interested in making contact then each party would be given the other party's e-mail and they could take it from there. The site recommended that such contacts be made in a secure manner, typically an arranged meeting at a neutral place such as a restaurant, etc.

This is how I met some in my general region. Alas with Fig Leaf Forum scaled back this service is no longer. And hence my selection of the scripture I selected. Without such a service, we are isolated. Each yellow square indicates that there are two or more addresses in a particular area. If those are families then likely more that two naturists are perhaps involved and a yellow block could actually be 5 or more addresses, especially in cities And some of the cities have multiple yellow blocks because of multiple zip codes and possibly suburbs.

Fellowship is highly desirable in order to sustain and grow the Christian Naturist community and as we are scattered so much that is difficult to establish. It of course helps if we give our general location on CNV or on NC and such sites. and then can pursue contact via PM's But it does require that people know this and at least be urged to consider providing such knowledge.

Perhaps we at CNV could have such a map and require that registrants provide their zip code on a not to be published basis. Or to keep it more general provide state and county information. I will leave it for others to offer suggestion in this strip just how we might do that while protecting people's privacy. But harking back to my citing Hosea, we are weakened by being to isolates with no way to remedy that isolation We can choose to remain isolated if we want but most of us would probably benefit from fellowship.

As both MoNatureMan and I have indicated, we both are in a position to, and have an inclination to, share our venues to one degree or another with other Christian Naturists for get-togethers. In some areas there are clubs and resorts that solo-guys lack access to, and informal get-togethers could provide some alleviation of that. And it does not even have to be a "get-together", sometimes a naturist would just like to find a safe place to walk in the woods, lay out sunning in the open, and meditate. I could support a thing like that on an appointment basis! It is frustrating to know to a degree of certainty that there are like minded people around here but I cannot find them.

So let me ask that rather than just read this post, that others post to discuss their input on how such a thing can be most easily done. John Kundert is to be praised for offering such a service while his situation allowed. It is a worthy idea to pursue as to how it might be made to exist again.
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby Petros » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:29 pm

In my case of course - pending Herself's hoped for loosening - contact is difficult, But yes, this is a desirable feature - this is in fact a bit more sophisticated than what I have seen elsewhere.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby jjsledge » Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:17 pm

Our North Texas Christian Naturist group found a lot of our members through FLF. We just had our annual meeting at Bluebonnet Nudist Park and had 14 in attendance even though the weather was very rainy. We will be trying to begin meeting monthly again.

Jerry Sledge
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby Maverick » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:49 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:So let me ask that rather than just read this post, that others post to discuss their input on how such a thing can be most easily done. John Kundert is to be praised for offering such a service while his situation allowed. It is a worthy idea to pursue as to how it might be made to exist again.


On another naturism forum I'm a member of (International Young Naturists Org.), there is a Google-style map that each member can "pin" with his/her location. That sounds like a pretty easy way to do it.

jjsledge wrote:Our North Texas Christian Naturist group found a lot of our members through FLF. We just had our annual meeting at Bluebonnet Nudist Park and had 14 in attendance even though the weather was very rainy. We will be trying to begin meeting monthly again.

Jerry Sledge


Once I become more independent (i.e. don't have to tell los padres where I'm going all the time) I hope to join y'all and YNOTU.
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby Bare_Truth » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:00 pm

I have been in contact with Jim Kundert and inquiring about his position on the Fellowship service of Fig Leaf Forum and what it might involve to re-establish this part of FLF. He has been most generous with his advice and comments and support for doing such a thing. I asked him if he would mind if I posted a selection of his communications to me and instead of giving me a go-ahead, he wrote up the portion that he felt was appropriate. It is virtually the same as what I had intended to post. The rest of our back and forth communication would only have cluttered it up, so he has saved me the effort of doing the editing that I would have had to do to separate the wheat from the chaff. So without further ado.
John Kundert wrote:I got the original idea for Fig Leaf Forum's fellowship service from something similar that I saw being done on another Web site. I adapted the same format and technology (with permission, and with a few tweaks of my own) to Fig Leaf Forum's site. It worked pretty well, all things considered. Almost everything was done manually -- intentionally. I passed along many thousands of contact invitations over the years. I could count the number of abuse complaints on just one hand. This is solely because I kept a very watchful and disciplined eye on what was happening at all times in order to keep my users as safe and as well-served as possible. I would frankly be concerned about potential liability issues if one were to institute a completely automated system. We live in an extremely litigious world, after all.

Operating the fellowship service takes basic coding knowledge. HTML for sure, with a little JavaScript and Perl on the side. I would say that time demands were "moderate" and certainly "daily." Fig Leaf Forum Contact had 700 users at its peak and so I received requests pretty much every day. The Web page and database required frequent updating (often several times per day) and the flow of e-mail messages to and from users was never-ending. My standard response time was usually measured in minutes (or at most just a few hours) despite everything being manually operated.

I would be willing to pass along the template that I used as well as a basic explanation of how the whole system worked, but only to someone who was *really serious* about the venture, and only to someone who is a proficient coder.

I don't want to come across as uncooperative here, but I remember well how much work was involved in all this when I was still doing it. Starting over will require a lot of effort even if the "wheel" isn't being "reinvented." Good things are seldom easy things. I'm willing to pass the torch to the right person, but that person had better be dead serious and able to keep that torch burning on their own. I hope you catch my meaning. This is a *significant* undertaking that will require earnest determination to do well. It must be regarded as a serious vocation rather than a casual hobby to which one only devotes free time when they feel like it.

I have in the past managed a web site and I certainly understand the level of commitment. However Java script and Perl is nothing I have ever done. I would have to start the learning curve at 0 on those two issue if I were to do such work. At my age and given my family history of suddenly checking out with a massive heart attack, it would be unfair to put myself forward for such an effort. (I am not expecting such a sudden departure but neither did my Father or any of my uncles on that side of the family -- but looking for the silver lining, at least there was no slow lingering downward spiral into decrepitude) My own thought is that someone in their 50's or younger would be a better candidate if we can find such a public spirited Christian Naturist.

In other discussions with John, I did observe that such a feature could be an adjunct to some organization such as AANR but that establishing the service from within a Christian Naturist Organization would be far better. The Christian based aspect is part of what made it work with few hitches as it limits it to a fairly like minded group. Depending on what becomes of Christian Naturist Convocation (CNC) that could be an example of a place where the service could thrive, Though I think that here at CNV would be excellent. I suspect that such a service would probably be of benefit to the membership roles of whoever reconstituted it. I have not doubt of that as it was a key attraction that FLF held for me and reputedly others. When establishing myself as a naturist I wanted to make sure that it was not in a secular swinger environment and FLF and CNV are about as solid as they come in that respect.

If CNV were to take this on, then I think that maybe one or two monitors might be assigned to manage the day to day week to week effort to run it. That of course would nicely address the issue of the sudden loss of one of the monitors and provide continuity (i.e. redundancy of key personnel). I would enjoy participating on that sort of level without fears of letting anyone down. (and my Perl and Java deficit could perhaps be over come in time).

I would love to see this effort get off the ground, and hopefully we can have further discussions of how it might be done to best advantage and smooth functioning. For instance, since there are levels of membership here at CNV, perhaps the Fellowship could require a certain minimum level of membership. That would probably help with properly evaluating recipients of the service. John had indicated that after years of operation the number of abuses of the system could be counted on one hand. He had an excellent protocol to provide safety. The web page for the service had both the map, but also a listing of naturists by state and city or county so that they could be referenced.
Some of the steps as I remember were:
a. The person desiring the contact would write up a brief explanation for why the request.
b. The persondesiring the contact would provide a bit of a background on their involvement in naturism (like the CNV introduction more or less
c. John would forward the request for contact to the person to be contacted.
d. The person to be contacted would respond to John with an ok or refusal
e. John would notify the requestor either way
f. In the case of an affirmative response for contact, John would provide the contactor and contactee with the other's e-mail address.
Additionally John also advised caution on making 1st contact, that it should be at a neutral location where either party was free to leave.

On the occasions I used this service with a face to face meeting I always arranged a meeting at a local Waffle House restaurant for coffee and breakfast. We did this on our shopping day and my wife would be present for breakfast and If the outcome was positive I would become the navigator for getting the contactee to our place as the directions to our place are not all that difficult but neither are they simple and everyone who has tried to find us with some sort of GPS system has found themselves looking at a cow pasture about 3/4 of a mile from here and no cell phone service either.

Ok guys and gals, it is up the flag pole, Shoot or Salute or give your insights or opinions or some mix thereof as appropriate.
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby Maverick » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:25 am

I don't mean to shoot at the flag or play the devil's advocate (well, actually I do :mrgreen: ), but it doesn't seem to me like there are enough active members here on CNV to warrant a mapping feature, especially considering the time and effort that would probably be involved in making such a feature work.

However, the big thing about coding is to use whatever someone else has made whenever you can use it. I still like the Google pin-map idea because (as far as I know) someone else has coded it and made it available to the public to use. It's probably much easier to integrate with an existing site than building one mostly from scratch.

My 2¢.
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby Bare_Truth » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:08 am

Maverick wrote:I don't mean to shoot at the flag or play the devil's advocate (well, actually I do :mrgreen: ),
That is just fine because if you foresee a fault in the plan it will be less trouble to fix it before the plan is executed than to wait until after it is under way.

Maverick wrote:but it doesn't seem to me like there are enough active members here on CNV to warrant a mapping feature,
That is a valid consideration if the feature is only available to us who are already here. However if we offer it we may find that we have more members joining.

The point you make speaks to the issue of how high we should make the bar. There is no reason that we could not make the service available to members of like minded websites, I am thinking of "Naturist Christians" for instance. If someone from NC has met the same level of involvement there, we could offer them the same access as to our own members.

And I see no reason that we might not also make it available to those who are registered at Fig Leaf Forum We might even be able to find some way to migrate all or some of them to CNV or at least for them to be notified and invited to CNV. I suspect that this might for instance increase our Canadian Membership.

In any of those scenarios I think we could and should be keeping the service reserved to those who practice naturism in accordance with Christian principles and we should explicitly state that to be so. I believe that Fig Leaf Forum has always had a Christian component to the comportmant of its membership that is on a par with what is maintained here. If we are able to proceed with this project, then this is certainly a policy topic worthy of discussion.

Maverick wrote:However, the big thing about coding is to use whatever someone else has made whenever you can use it. I still like the Google pin-map idea because (as far as I know) someone else has coded it and made it available to the public to use. It's probably much easier to integrate with an existing site than building one mostly from scratch.
I believe that John Kundert is willing to give us the package he has developed so "reinventing the wheel" would not be necessary. However I am not sure that letting the general public have access to putting themselves on the map would be a good idea. That would depend on how much control over the map and the work to maintain it would be involved. At the very least I would think that one would have to be a member in good standing who had advanced beyond just the minimum to be able to post here. I have made reference in the past to
the number of "10 post wonders" who have quickly made 10 posts sever of which are just junk posts to say welcome to some other new member and then never post again having gained access to galleries and a few other features. People who are allowed to appear on the map or in the "location list" should be vetted to at least some minimal criteria, otherwise we are likely to end up with a bunch of ghouls mixed in with the real naturists who act in accordance with Christian Principles.

Maverick wrote:My 2¢.
There must be some sort of economic deflation in effect here, as I would place the value of the comments at $2 at least. :wink: :D Those were good ones with worthy insights and thoughts. Hopefully they will inspire some more.

FLF was a great pioneering effort to put Christian Naturism into cyber space, it would be great if legacy aspects of it might be continued. :pray:
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby Maverick » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:07 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:
Maverick wrote:However, the big thing about coding is to use whatever someone else has made whenever you can use it. I still like the Google pin-map idea because (as far as I know) someone else has coded it and made it available to the public to use. It's probably much easier to integrate with an existing site than building one mostly from scratch.
I believe that John Kundert is willing to give us the package he has developed so "reinventing the wheel" would not be necessary.


That's a good thing. Natman or one of the other admins would just have to make sure that Mr. Kundert's package would be integrate-able with our site. This site is based on phpBB (php Bulletin Board, https://www.phpbb.com/) so there may also be a map plug-in designed specifically for phpBB sites.


Bare_Truth wrote:However I am not sure that letting the general public have access to putting themselves on the map would be a good idea. That would depend on how much control over the map and the work to maintain it would be involved. At the very least I would think that one would have to be a member in good standing who had advanced beyond just the minimum to be able to post here. I have made reference in the past to the number of "10 post wonders" who have quickly made 10 posts sever of which are just junk posts to say welcome to some other new member and then never post again having gained access to galleries and a few other features. People who are allowed to appear on the map or in the "location list" should be vetted to at least some minimal criteria, otherwise we are likely to end up with a bunch of ghouls mixed in with the real naturists who act in accordance with Christian Principles.


I agree. There might also be an experiential factor to it. Someone totally new to naturism might have to make 10-20 posts before having gallery and map access, while an experienced or vetted naturist who is new to this site might be granted immediate access by an admin.

Bare_Truth wrote:
Maverick wrote:My 2¢.
There must be some sort of economic deflation in effect here, as I would place the value of the comments at $2 at least. :wink: :D Those were good ones with worthy insights and thoughts. Hopefully they will inspire some more.


You are too kind, Bare_Truth. I'm glad I could help. Now where's the hat-tip emoticon? :?:
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby jochanaan » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:19 pm

I like the idea and would be willing to help, but I don't have any coding training, let alone experience. -- Natman?
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:06 pm

jochanaan wrote:I like the idea and would be willing to help, but I don't have any coding training, let alone experience. -- Natman?
I suspect that the coding experience is probably only necessary to get it up and running after that I suspect it would only require managment or at most using stardard block of code.
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby MatthewNeal » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:59 pm

Is this topic dead?

I'd like to see it revived...

Matt
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby natman » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:03 pm

MatthewNeal wrote:Is this topic dead?

I'd like to see it revived...

Matt


So it is, you have done so.

It has been a while since I visited Fig Leaf Forum and while it is still online, it appears to be no longer active. It appears to be more of a "blog" site which had posts by the owner/webmaster and posted letters submitted by reader/members.

There is a LOT of really GOOD information on the site, worthy of keeping available.

I was approached about continuing the format here and would be open to doing so if John Kundert would approve.
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Re: Fellowship Service

Postby naturaldon » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:00 pm

Will that happen anytime soon, Natman?
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