Innocence

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Innocence

Postby Maverick » Mon May 29, 2017 9:27 am

Last night, my family and I were invited to our next-door neighbor's house for their daughter's birthday party (she's 32 so it was an older crowd of people). Our neighbors' grandson and two other children, one boy and one girl, all around 3-4 years old, ran around without a stitch on in the backyard and splashed around in the kiddie pool. Some people laughed at the spectacle but no one objected or was "offended." I saw firsthand how carefree the children were as they played with each other, not caring that they were naked. It was just a cool thing to see.

It made me wonder, when do we lose that innocence of nudity and get the idea that it's not good to be naked? (Not us naturists of course, but our society at large.)
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Re: Innocence

Postby naturaldon » Mon May 29, 2017 11:44 am

In Matthew 18:3, unless we change and become as little children, we will never enter the kingdom of heaven. I think Christian naturists are one step closer to realizing what those words of Jesus mean!
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He must increase, but I must decrease. (John 3:30)
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Re: Innocence

Postby JimShedd112 » Mon May 29, 2017 4:25 pm

I think the loss of innocence begins when adults begin to tell children they must stay covered because their nakedness is "wrong." I don't believe we can ever say it comes at a certain point, it is arbitrary based upon the actions and words of those older than the children they admonish for their nakedness.

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Re: Innocence

Postby Petros » Mon May 29, 2017 4:42 pm

My BIL has a girl about a year older than our son. As a preschooler, it was understood that she had more urge to deconstruct wardrobe than most of the family. Her mother enjoyed having her nude and very pregnant body recorded, happily shared the pictures - her sister as young adult is known to have frequented the nude beach.

But said niece - at leas seen from outside - cannot be distinguished from the products of more stoutly textile families.

Sooner or later, we are forced to mix with the majority. And difference are either erased or hidden away. I have no reason to think she has anything like body shame. But being different is not easy - is it, now?
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Innocence

Postby DaveT » Mon May 29, 2017 8:15 pm

I remember when it started for myself. When my sister started "peeking" and saying "i see you" when I was naked. At 6 or 7 years old. Even though it was pretty much impossible to hide, being in the center of the one room we lived in. It was enough to make me feel like hiding, and it grew into an unnatural fear of being seen naked. It doesn't take much. I didn't have the development or common sense at that age to think it through and realize it didn't matter. and respond with what would have been appropriate "so what!" Children can be very sensitive emotionally and their minds are like a sponge, soaking up everything and learning from every word and emotion that is shown. Just the fact that they are dressed up to leave home is a lesson that nakedness isn't acceptable out there. As children we believe what we are told and shown without question. Only when we grow up and start to reason things out for ourselves do we start questioning things. And even then many things we were taught we don't think to question until we run into something that throws doubt on what we thought we knew. Then some people will investigate and adjust their opinions according to the new info, some will resist the new info and stick with what they are comfortable with. Now my brother, even as much as he doesn't like nakedness now, there was no anti nude commenting around him except my mothers teaching, which was kind of two sided, on one hand childhood nudity was irrelevant, and yet she thought nude was lewd as well. A nonsense kind of unreasoning. but he would run through the house naked before or after a bath until he was 10 at least. (by the time he came along we had a modern house)

So it's education that kills the innocence. False education based on erroneous information propagated by society and religion.
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Re: Innocence

Postby webmeister » Wed May 31, 2017 6:22 pm

Maverick wrote:Last night, my family and I were invited to our next-door neighbor's house for their daughter's birthday party (she's 32 so it was an older crowd of people). Our neighbors' grandson and two other children, one boy and one girl, all around 3-4 years old, ran around without a stitch on in the backyard and splashed around in the kiddie pool. Some people laughed at the spectacle but no one objected or was "offended." I saw firsthand how carefree the children were as they played with each other, not caring that they were naked. It was just a cool thing to see.

It made me wonder, when do we lose that innocence of nudity and get the idea that it's not good to be naked? (Not us naturists of course, but our society at large.)

I believe in our area up to age 10 is not illegal, after that I guess we suddenly become offensive to the sight. Today legally nude, on your 11 birthday you are lewd and illegal. A good example of when we lose our innocence. Some unfortunately never experience that innocence.

Why don't they raise the legal age to 150 so we can all play in the kiddie pool and have fun :D
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Re: Innocence

Postby naturaldon » Wed May 31, 2017 9:27 pm

webmeister wrote:
Why don't they raise the legal age to 150 so we can all play in the kiddie pool and have fun


I don't think I'd want my 90 year old son playing in the same pool as a 150 year old man. That's why. :lol:
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He must increase, but I must decrease. (John 3:30)
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Re: Innocence

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:05 am

As to the age when "innocence" is lost I would think that for the typical child and with respect to nudity, the approach of puberty/adolesence constitutes the tipping point.
Dictionary.com gives the following definition of pubescent
[pyoo-bes-uh nt]
adjective
1. arriving or arrived at puberty.
2.Botany, Zoology. covered with down or fine short hair.
Searching a thesaurus yields the same reference to the growing of hair.

So as the child's body moves toward developing the secondary sex characteristics there is also a development of drives that were not there during the previous years. Such drives (should we say motives?) may tend to cause the more adventurous and less cautious to want to experiment sexually with consequences that they are not ready for and hence much disruption of lives with very negative consequences may result. When one through their deliberate actions causes disastrous consequences and trouble one is no longer innocent.

As children "approach" puberty they are sufficiently mentally developed to grasp the concept of right and wrong and conduct themselves accordingly, yet the approach of puberty brings the stirrings of desires which have consequences that the child is not equipped to deal with mental, emotionally, and physically. Hence a young person who by choice takes actions that cause harm is not innocent. A child who is too young to have such desires may be "presumed" to be by contrast "inherently innocent".

One of the problems that our society has to deal with is the shift toward earlier pubescence. This is sometimes attributed to consistent adequate diet and sometimes also attributed to environmental developments in diet and elsewhere that trigger puberty at younger ages but not mental maturation at an earlier age. "Sex as recreation" without completing minimum capacity for sex as reproduction and child rearing is the root of the problem and is the crime of which our society as well as individuals are not innocent.

We laud the innocence of children because we see the carefree joy that children have and realize that it is such a wonderful thing that that we have lost through the process of maturing. Though seeing it as wonderful we rejoice that the children have it and we mourn that we do not. As naturists we recapture a measure of that and as adults we realize that we can do that so long as we set the appropriate and responsible boundaries. The confusion of naturism and sex arises from when others seek the same removal of restrictions but without setting the necessary protective boundaries and create disasters such as disease epidemics (HIV Syphilis and STD's , bastardy, abortion, etc. ). Please note that the boundaries that need to be set by naturists are internal, moral, spiritual, mental boundaries, and not the external physical boundaries that society tries to set, such as mandatory clothing, no mixed gender nudity, separate sanitary facilities, etc., all of which are aimed at those who cannot/will not control themselves and their lust for personal gratification.
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