Am I? Well... maybe

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Am I? Well... maybe

Postby OzTech » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:28 am

Same as if I'm asked am I Pentecostal... maybe. It comes down to how people want to label me. The Church I go to some people might call Pentecostal but we don't use that label ourselves... we're just Christian... or 'non-denominational' if you like. As for Naturist/Nudist I don't really label myself that way but I just operate as someone who, if at a location where there are others who are naked, will also also get undressed so as not to make those people uncomfortable or make them think I am some sort of voyeur. If I were there in the company of someone who would be offended at my nudity then, for their sake, I would not do so. What does scripture say? "All things to all men" or something to that effect.

From scripture it seems to me that the Jews were pretty pragmatic about whether or not to go about unclothed and how they regarded those who did. If somebody was engaged in some form or labour then being naked, or mostly so, just made common sense... e.g. no point having your expensive robe ruined by salt water while out in the boat fishing. If the person was really poor (or a slave)... well ... so they could not afford much in the way of clothing hence being naked, or almost so, was just a fact of life... a pity but that's how is was for some and they would not worry too much about it... at least that is my take on it. So for me... if it is at a naturist venue and is appropriate... if it's some location where nobody else is at or are likely to be... I'll go about naked... and maybe enjoy it some... but... someone else can call it as to whether or not I am a naturist or nudist. Personally... I am just me. Hey... if God can identify Himself as 'I am who I am' then why can't we, as His sons or daughters, simply identify ourselves as 'I am me!"
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby RMOlson » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:04 pm

Welcome OzTech,
I appreciate your description of yourself. I look forward to hearing more from you.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby Petros » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:41 am

So do you, personally, speak in tongues?
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:14 am

In general, I honor the custom of nudity or wearing clothing based on what others around me tend to do, but I also believe that we can give destiny a nudge in the right direction.
In certain situations, a family can help revive customary nudity on a clothing optional beach that may be a bit too skewed toward clothing.
Even some clothing optional resorts have people wearing clothes away from the pool when the weather is so hot that it doesn't add to physical comfort one whit.
I overheard one nudist dad encourage his daughter to shed her rather long t-shirt and be confident in her nudity.
The sun had dropped below the trees, the weather was still blazing hot, but she was a teen dealing with momentary self-consciousness and needed a positive word from Dad.
Similarly AANR Youth Camp leaders have worked hard to help campers restore their childhood confidence in nudity.

My own mom gave me similar encouragement when I was a child feeling a little anxious about nudity in a situation or two when was no need for worry.

Nudity gets different reactions in different situations. There are times when a little boldness on our part will do far more good than harm.
Use your judgement and remain prayerful in all things.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby JimShedd112 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:41 pm

I too appreciate your manner of enjoying nudity while considering others' views.

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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby OzTech » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:25 pm

Well Petros... about 44 years ago I sort of ran out of words to praise the Lord in my personal prayer times... repetition was not adequately meeting that desire. God took care of that.

While I was praying the Lord showed me that he would meet me in that area just after Christmas (which was a bit unlikely as I was going to be away from any Spirit filled people on holiday with my family in South Australia). So... I failed my course in college, got a job interview just after Christmas (so could not travel with them at that time) and had to make my own way over there a few days later. I arrived in Adelaide with no idea I where I would stay (another one of those 'by faith' moments), made some phone calls and ended up staying with a Pentecostal couple over there. He prayed I would be Baptised in the Spirit (with tongues) and nothing happened. He got a little annoyed... God had not done things the way he thought God should (I guess). So hours later, while praying before going to sleep, something happened to my way of thinking and I started to pray in words that were not English and that I was not sure I knew the meaning of. Next morning I woke up with a new song I'd never heard before running though my brain.

A Christian group here in Australia (Family) sang:

I mostly want to say I love Jesus.
I mostly want to sing praise the Lord
but anything else that you hear me sing
let it be known that I'm praising Him
just the same.

Note: God provide me with some of the other spiritual gifts (a 'word of knowledge', a 'word of wisdom' when the situation required it) some time before I ever spoke with other languages in private.

Again it's to do with labels. In the Baptist Church that I was a member of back then 'tongues' was not encouraged but there were one or two Charismatics in my church and in other sister Churches elsewhere in the town. The lady who taught my mother in Sunday school and ran the Christian book shop was one and a Baptist minister a couple of suburbs over also spoke in tongues. So... Pentecostal, Charismatic, Neo-pentecostal, whatever... how about I just stick to 'Christian' then I can relate with other Christians without them feeling I'm a bring strange... or need rescuing from some sort of deception (like I was going to do for the others in the Christian Fellowship at college once I had learnt enough about speaking in tongues to know what was wrong about that Charismatic thing). When I moved to Melbourne the only Baptist church that was Charismatic was in Frankston and too far away to be practical so the Lord got me into the Church I've been at these past 40 years instead. Another story there.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby New_Adventurer » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:18 am

Can anyone explain to me what language Tongue is? I do not know if I have ever heard it spoken or sung. What does it sound like?
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby Jim » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:09 am

New_Adventurer wrote:Can anyone explain to me what language Tongue is? I do not know if I have ever heard it spoken or sung. What does it sound like?

"Tongue" is just another word for language. Speaking in tongues is speaking in a language one didn't naturally learn. It can sound like a wide variety of languages, or if you're feeling skeptical, sound like babbling. Sometimes a hearer understands the language the speaker does not understand. In some groups many people "speak in tongues" in similar tones; I suspect there is a naturally learned component here.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby Petros » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:33 am

Look up glossolalia.

In Acts we are told that at Pentecost people were speaking in languages they did not know and being understood by foreigners who did speak the languages. That has not happened in my hearing, but some come out, often without control or intent, with what sounds like foreign words.

Theories vary - I doubt most. Myself, I generally resist the glossolalic phenomenon - in my line it would be too easy to fake or to drag words out of the subconscious. But occasionally - when the Spirit moves - one or two almost inaudible wordlike objects wuill escape my lips.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:59 am

Jim wrote:
New_Adventurer wrote:Can anyone explain to me what language Tongue is? I do not know if I have ever heard it spoken or sung. What does it sound like?

"Tongue" is just another word for language. Speaking in tongues is speaking in a language one didn't naturally learn. It can sound like a wide variety of languages, or if you're feeling skeptical, sound like babbling. Sometimes a hearer understands the language the speaker does not understand. In some groups many people "speak in tongues" in similar tones; I suspect there is a naturally learned component here.

The doctrine of tongues includes the notion that there are "tongues of men and tongues of angels" (I Cor. 13:1) and that Christians filled with the Holy Spirit may speak either kind of utterance.
To further expound upon the concept, he tongues of angels is frequently described as heartfelt utterances from our inner being, our spirit, bypassing the limitations of human language and understanding. “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.” Romans 8:26

We should not be quick to dismiss these utterances simply because there is a human component.
No one would deny that our brain, tongue, and lips are involved.
This is a union of flesh and spirit, working in harmony to speak our heart to the Lord.

Are all tongues from God?
It would depend entirely upon the heart and motivation of the one speaking, that much seems clear.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby Englishman » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:36 am

Time to chip in, methinks. I introduced myself as a charismatic, evengelical protestant; something I've been settled into for the last 40+ years. Do I speak in tongues? Yes, quite a bit actually; at least in personal prayer. Am I making it up? No. Can I prove that? Probably not, depending on what level of proof you require. Am I going to stop? Absolutely not!

Paul tell us (1 Cor. 14:4a) that he who speaks in a tongue edifies himself. The Apostle goes on to say that prophecy edifies everyone; however, he does not say that edifying yourself is a bad thing. There have times, far too numerous to list, when, as OzTech says, there just aren't enough words left in English & my prayers spring into a language I have not learned. There is a profound difference between speaking in tounges and uttering gibberish; I know this because talking in gibberish is an exercise one of my acting teachers led us into. The gift of Tounges comes from a different place. I can't explain it any more clearly but you will know when you are talking to God at a level deeper & more intimate than anything else and trying to say 'bananna' backwards three times!

Like any spiritual gift, Toungues can be misuded; I've seen that more than enough times too. Will I let the fact that some folk abuse, or misuse, & there is a mighty difference between the two, their gift stop me from drawing closer to God in prayer by speaking in Tongues; not a chance.

A final encouragement; when this gift first appeared in my life, there wasn't an awful lot of it. As they years passed & I continued in the habit it seems that my unlearned vocabulary has grown, which seems a bit odd, but it is what has happened. I am more than happy to answer questions but I am not a theologian, just a bloke who finds speaking in Tounges to be a valuable part of my Faith & its expression in my life.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby OzTech » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:28 am

There are reports of pagan spiritualists speaking in another language by the spirit they had welcomed into their body and on the occasions the language was recognised the person was uttering curses and blasphemies.

In the days that I was at the Baptist Church one of my peers had, some time before, become involved with a Pentecostal group and desperately wanted to speak in tongues. he spoke in tongues but then he started to become erratic in his behaviour. On his way to the mental institute his father asked him to ask the spirit that gave him that language if Jesus was his Lord. The response he got was 'Jesus is YOUR Lord' not 'Jesus is my Lord' as the Holy Spirit would respond. He realised that he had opened himself to a deception and, after being delivered of that spirit, he was reluctant to be involved with anything Pentecostal for as long as I knew him.

As Ramblinman said... it does depend upon the heart and the motivations. The first and most important criteria before anyone should seek anything more in the way of the Holy Spirit and associated gift must be that they are a genuine Christian i.e. has asked the Lord into their life. God will not give any bad gifts to His children. Refer Luke 11:9-13.

Then it comes down to a desire to serve God and His body, the Church, (which is why He gives any of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit... for the building up and edification of His people). There is also the aspect from 1 Cor 14 where a personal prayer language is given to individuals for when native language just runs out of word to worship Him with.

A standard response to the Gifts of the Spirit, in many denominations, is that they finished centuries ago quoting "...when that which is perfect is come, then that which in part will be done away" (1 Cor 13:10) They claim that the Bible is 'that which is perfect' but, in the context of 1 Cor 12, 13 and 14 I feel that this does not really apply. Refer Eph 4:11:13 for an explanation of "that which is perfect". (That is one of my most favourite scriptures... it indicates where we are going in our Christian walk... we are to become like Christ). 1 Cor 13 speaks of love not about scripture so part of 'that which is perfect' is going to be that we love one another. Still... I put that response out there for any who would rather not be bothered by issues of spiritual gifts.

Good to here from Englishman as well.
Just one comment on what he has said. Speaking in a heavenly language is going to be words that we do not know but, on some occasions, you might get the impression of what is being said. I does not happen with me like that all the time but sometimes I have the feeling I know what is being said. And if... a big if for me... God gets behind you and gives you a shove to speak in an unknown language in the Church it should be pretty much a given that He will also give you the interpretation of what you have said... just in case there is nobody else there who has (or is prepare to give) and interpretation of that word. We get prophesies mostly in our fellowship because Tongues are more a witness to the unbeliever plus (I think) the congregation has not really determined who within the group has a reliable Gift of Interpretation.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby c.o. » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:50 am

The validity of the Spiritual charismata beyond the Apostolic age (the original 13 apostles) is a matter of hermeneutics, and those who hold that they ceased even before Paul passed have some very sound biblical reasonings for such belief.

Bias toward one view or the other is inarguable, and it's possible that for every Pentecostal or Charismatic that has spurned their former "utterings" practice, there is a former non-Pent/Char who may have embraced it.

But if any readers have questions, i would encourage their own thorough investigation into both sides of the issue. It is not always prudent to begin and end one's investigation with what a particular denomination has to say about it.
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Grace never will.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby Jim » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:48 pm

c.o. wrote:The validity of the Spiritual charismata beyond the Apostolic age (the original 13 apostles) is a matter of hermeneutics, and those who hold that they ceased even before Paul passed have some very sound biblical reasonings for such belief.

Bias toward one view or the other is inarguable,...

Maybe it's my bias showing, but I think history would also be helpful to study.
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Re: Am I? Well... maybe

Postby c.o. » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:47 pm

Jim wrote:Maybe it's my bias showing, but I think history would also be helpful to study.

No, Jim. If anything is showing (besides much of your natural covering in your avatar), it's your considerate wisdom :-).

We should remember that human-written histories can also have their biases, while Scripture, rightly divided, does not.
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