walking nude on public trails

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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby Lorreno » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:50 am

JimShedd112 wrote:I think it's great, Thomas. It's nice to know the clothed people accept nudity and inquire about it. I noticed in a previous post you said there are 2 million nudists in France. I think it is great.

Jim


There are a lot of people who don't seem to like it either but most of the time they just avert their eyes and move along.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby vycna » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:30 pm

vycna wrote:I think in California, there is a policy in State Park or Forest Land that away from others who would object you cannot be in trouble from being found nude by officials there, the Cahill Policy. If others have seen and reported it you would have to comply and get dressed that day. Maybe the officials are not to require it without the complaint, but I am not sure, one should probably cover up if they do say to do so.


I have learned more recently the Cahill policy is not currently in force in California.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby Bare_Truth » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:16 pm

Ramblinman wrote:I know a guy who spent time in prison for walking nude on a public trail here in National Forest land.
I would like to praise France for their better attitude about the body.

So in that case it would be useful to know:
A.-- Where "here" was?
B.-- What other circumstances might have been present in the incident?
C.-- What other circumstances might have been considered about the case and the defendant?
D.-- What infraction was actually charged?
E.-- When you said "Prison" did you mean county Jail? Or was it really state or federal Prison or one of those "Private Prisons"?
F.-- was this a misdemenor or a felony conviction.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby Petros » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:00 am

Excellent questions.

Also, do you know of other such cases?
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby Ramblinman » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:11 am

Ramblinman wrote:I know a guy who spent time in prison for walking nude on a public trail here in National Forest land.
I would like to praise France for their better attitude about the body.

Bare_Truth wrote:So in that case it would be useful to know:

A.-- Where "here" was? Within the boundary of a heavily used developed campground in the Chattahoochee National Forest
B.-- What other circumstances might have been present in the incident? None that I am aware of except that large numbers of people saw him and he was a middle aged man hiking alone.
C.-- What other circumstances might have been considered about the case and the defendant? There was no "behavior" reported in the paper. Nudity on trail, that's it! I did phone him to ask for his side of the story. Nothing seemed untoward.
D.-- What infraction was actually charged? Violation of a Southeast Regional Forest Service ordinance against public nudity.
E.-- When you said "Prison" did you mean county Jail? Or was it really state or federal Prison or one of those "Private Prisons"? Not sure. It has been several years and I could not dig up article on short notice online.
F.-- was this a misdemenor or a felony conviction. Not sure, it's been several years and I don't trust my memory beyond what I told you.

The point of my post was to illustrate that nudity on public trails does not get the same reaction from the public nor from law enforcement depending on region of the United States or legal jurisdiction.

To be sure, prosecutors would consider other factors if they find evidence, but as best as I can tell, there is now legal precedent for prosecution of simple nudity on a public hiking trail in the SE US.

I am never nude on public trails in this area. I am only nude off-trail, typically while bathing in lakes or rivers when no one else is present nor likely to be present.
That will not guarantee immunity from a citation, but I am willing to go to court and testify that bathing away from campsites and off-trail is customary use of natural resources.
I would seek help from a lawyer as well, preferably one familiar with this sort of issue. The presumed argument in my case would be that "public nudity" does NOT include being discovered bathing or toilet duties when reasonable efforts to be unseen are taken.

By contrast, this hiker openly violated regional Forest Service ordinance in a very prudish part of the US. The US is culturally diverse and like it or not, that does come into play.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby balaam » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:42 pm

Things are better than that here east of the Atlantic.

Being naked in public has not been illegal since 2003, as long as there is no intent to cause harassment, alarm or distress. As far as walking on public trails is consent using trails close to schools while naked is best avoided to say the least. Also if seen be very polite, if your behaviour is seen as being threatening or abusive it will have a bearing on what happens.
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has guidelines, which have been sent to all police forces in England and Wales, (Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own laws) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/nudi ... ublic/#a05.
We have NAG, the Naturist Action Group, who will take on some legal cases.
On the other hand there are ASBOs (Anti-social Behaviour Order) Which can be issued by the police and the Local Authority. So, as in other countries, it really depends where you live.

What we do not have is reliable weather, even in summer.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby jochanaan » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:47 pm

balaam, do you know the latest on Steve Gough, the Naked Rambler? Last I heard, he was free and taking care of his ailing mother -- in textiles...
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby balaam » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:53 am

I can only go by what the Naturist Action Group (NAG) say.

The last on Gough was that he had been in Scottish prison* for years net never been convicted for being nude. He would turn up in court naked and be jailed for contempt, then when released strip naked, get arrested, appear in court naked again and .... you get the pattern.

I heard that there had been another arrest recently, but this time at some distance from the prison*. I was not aware he was at home, maybe they did not prosecute this time.

The CPS guidelines, that simply being naked should not be prosecuted, apply only to England and Wales and not to Scotland or Northern Ireland.

---

* I use prison because the British spelling of gaol (jail in the US, same pronunciation) confuses some Americans.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:33 am

I hate the fact that Gough was walking alone so much of the way.
Where were the naturists to show support?
If 1,000 Britons walked sections or the entirety of the journey from Land's End to John O'Groats, it would appear less a case of one weirdo larking about starkers and more a movement of people who believe in the goodness of the body as God gave it, believe in freedom and comfort and believe in returning to nature.

I understand that he had a girlfriend of some sort part of the time, but that wasn't quite enough.

Naturism is not deliberately about offending people, most of us want to quietly strip off our clothes and take a swim or sunbath as Britons have done down through the ages until puritanical abhorrence of the body dominated the land. Likewise I do not seek a fight everywhere I go, but maybe with sufficient show of numbers, we can change culture.

Imagine 1,000 people walking in the sunshine along a country lane on a fine spring day, none of them wearing a stitch.
Now you might have a lewd fellow come along and try to do some sexual exhibit, but give him the boot quickly and let the parade of naked innocence continue.
What a message it would send!

Now between you and me, marching through crowded cities and village squares is a bit cheeky, but why can't a great mass of people do it, much as the World Naked Bike ride does?

The relatively small UK has more nude beaches than America, but neither countries have the liberty of a Spain, France or Croatia.

I think that in practical terms nudity should be common on every beach and recreation areas in city parks and of course on hiking trails, rivers and lakes.
Folks do tend to wear clothes to go to market. But otherwise, a change in culture needs to take place.
Which comes first?
Gradual increase in nudity on beaches and when swimming everywhere?
Commercial establishments, (not just naturist camps) offering chaste nude events more and more?
Mass demonstrations of nude people, going public in a big way?
Or sitting around the kitchen table wishing things could be different.

All I am asking is for the UK to have the acceptance of nudity it had a few centuries ago and perhaps the US could follow in her footsteps.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby New_Adventurer » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:50 pm

As I suggested several years ago, take a lesson from the civil rights movement and the feminists movement, non-violent protests and masses of individual taking coordinated action against an unpopular cause. They won their battles and so can we.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby JimShedd112 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:30 pm

Yes, group action is probably the best course of action but, unfortunately, most of us seem too concerned about familial and frien relationships, jobs, church groups, etc. And, of course, the specter of legal conflict and the subsequent consequences.

Jim
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby Ramblinman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:19 am

JimShedd112 wrote:Yes, group action is probably the best course of action but, unfortunately, most of us seem too concerned about familial and frien relationships, jobs, church groups, etc. And, of course, the specter of legal conflict and the subsequent consequences.

Jim

Jim,

Rosa Parks was no outlandish agitator, she said that she simply was tired after a long day of manual labor and didn't have the energy to give her seat on the bus to a white man.
She had had enough!

On one hand, nothing may have changed for several years if she had done the "customary thing" and showed subservience to white people.
But it took a whole town of people boycotting the bus system to follow up on the controversy she accidentally started.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby dv8 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:13 am

There is the perception of safety in numbers - as well as a bigger, stronger effect. I was able to connect with three other naturists earlier this year for a 4-person nude hike along a National Forest trail, and we were overtaken at one resting point by a pair of (clothed) hikers. I was definitely more comfortable in the company of three others than I would have been alone, and all of us were able to share a pleasant (if brief) exchange with the two men who passed us. Knowing such a sighting was possible, we as a group had talked about it beforehand and decided that, to avoid the suggestion that we thought hiking nude was somehow "wrong," we would NOT attempt to get dressed if we were spotted - although some of us did hold something in front of us to reduce the exposure. I almost wish we had seen more people, that went so well - and I'm in favor of letting more people witness casual, non-aggressive, comfortable nudity in others so they might have their preconceptions shaken, if even a little. So if that means more groups (and mixed-gender would be even better than the all-male group I was in), that works for me.
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Re: walking nude on public trails

Postby Ramblinman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:32 pm

dv8 wrote:There is the perception of safety in numbers - as well as a bigger, stronger effect. I was able to connect with three other naturists earlier this year for a 4-person nude hike along a National Forest trail, and we were overtaken at one resting point by a pair of (clothed) hikers. I was definitely more comfortable in the company of three others than I would have been alone, and all of us were able to share a pleasant (if brief) exchange with the two men who passed us. Knowing such a sighting was possible, we as a group had talked about it beforehand and decided that, to avoid the suggestion that we thought hiking nude was somehow "wrong," we would NOT attempt to get dressed if we were spotted - although some of us did hold something in front of us to reduce the exposure. I almost wish we had seen more people, that went so well - and I'm in favor of letting more people witness casual, non-aggressive, comfortable nudity in others so they might have their preconceptions shaken, if even a little. So if that means more groups (and mixed-gender would be even better than the all-male group I was in), that works for me.

dv8, it would be easy for a solitary hiker to be mistaken for an exhibitionist or worse:
Imagine that you are hiking nude on one trail with dense vegetation on all sides, then you suddenly intersect another trail with hikers unaccustomed to the sight,
They would tell the Channel 13 Action News reporter "this naked man jumped out of the bushes in front of us, so we pepper sprayed him and hog tied him until the rangers could arrest him".
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