NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

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Re: NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

Postby willbtan » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:57 pm

I was raised in an ultra strict Church. Just about everything was wrong to do. We were told repeatedly that we were not to do things that offended others and would cause them to stumble.
At a young age I could not get a grasp of the limits of not offending.
I asked the question then and I ask the question now-Who sets the boundaries that we follow? There are people who will not tolerate another person drinking some wine. They are offended if you do. There are people who are offended when you eat meat. There are people who are offended if you drink a 7UP, it could be mistaken for whiskey.
Do we yield to every persons rules? Jesus did not, he did things on the Sabbath. He was accused of being a glutton and a wine drinker.
If Jesus did not stop for every other custom of man, then why do we struggle so with clothes?
I believe the Bible is the guide. Some interpret passages differently, so does that make the other person automatically right?
We all struggle in these areas and it is not easy.
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Re: NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

Postby Jon-Marc » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:02 am

Paul said that if eating meat offended a brother, then he wouldn't eat meat. I'm sorry--maybe I will never be what God expects if He expects me to do anything I can to avoid offending people. Personally, I think Paul was fond was writing his personal opinions and making them sound as though they are commandments from God.

There are people who are offended by my Christian belief; do I change my beliefs to avoid offending them? Wouldn't my new beliefs offend somebody? There are people who think I'm living in sin because I live full time in a nudist resort; should I move out so I don't offend them? There are people who think it's barbaric to eat meat; does that mean I should stop eating meat? The list goes on and on and on as to things that we do that offends someone. Do we stop doing EVERYTHING to avoid offending someone somewhere?

I believe I have complete liberty through Christ--not to sin, but to live as I believe is pleasing to God. My main desire is for others to see Christ in me, but that's a goal I don't believe I will ever attain in this life. The Bible does say that we will be like Christ, because we will see Him as He is. I believe that will be in heaven and not on earth. We still have our sin nature even though our sins have been forgiven. I've always wondered why our sin nature wasn't removed at the moment we were saved. More than anything else, the removal of our sin nature is my #1 desire. :cross:
The Righteousness of Christ--the ONLY clothing I need.
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Re: NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

Postby Petros » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:27 am

The problem is - it is just as impossible to avoid giving offense as it is to please everyone.

Herself and I are as in tune and in touch as I believe it is possible to be - but I offend her and she offends me at least lightly daily. Of course, we also please one an other - and each of us realizes, I am NOT perfect, I do NOT have perfct control of my words and deeds, I do NOT know how to predict what word, which action, will offend.

And then - "Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend" Paul is NOT so far as I see claiming he will avoid doing that which will perturb or shock - our sense of offend - the other. Rather, if his being seen reading a certain book will make lead to the other doing something he considers sinful - THEN he will avoid it.
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Re: NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

Postby jochanaan » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:33 am

And Paul was not afraid to do or say things that raised folks' hackles! :shock:

But, as I have said before, the Biblical phrase "cause to offend" (used here and in other similar contexts) is not at all the same as the modern verb "to be offended." Biblically, "to cause to offend" is more in line with enticing others to sin; one synonym might be "entrap." So therefore, if we ourselves exercise our freedom from the "moral necessity" of clothing, even if others know about it who are not ready to acknowledge that freedom, is it the sin of entrapment? And if so, then, logically, in what other areas should we restrain ourselves from the personal freedom we have in Jesus Christ?

Paul was reasonable enough that I do not think he would expect us to bow to others' wishes that much, as he shows in Romans 14:3-4: "Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."
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Re: NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

Postby Petros » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:40 pm

"And Paul was not afraid to do or say things that raised folks' hackles! "

THAT mayst thou say twice or even thrice!
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Re: NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

Postby jasenj1 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:11 am

I like the term "entrap", Jochanaan. We really need to dig into the context of the [url]=http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/8.htm1 Cor 8[/url] passage. The issue there was eating meat sacrificed to idols. Eating items sacrificed to these gods was considered participating in worship of those idols.

He also says that idols are nothing & we should not condemn each other for eating or not eating. (See Rom 14. Folks like to dwell on the not giving offense/causing to stumble section, but not the don't be judgmental of the liberty of others.

Matthew Neal deals with this issue quite extensively in The Biblical Naturist blog starting here.
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Re: NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

Postby Petros » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:48 am

We may note:

Christians have no monopoly on taking offense or judging.
Theists have no monopoly on taking offense or judging.

I am not sure the rations vary significantly from one population segment to another.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: NUDIST HAVE RIGHTS TOO

Postby jochanaan » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:00 pm

jasenj1 wrote:... Folks like to dwell on the not giving offense/causing to stumble section, but not the don't be judgmental of the liberty of others....
Ain't that the truth! Unless, of course, one is seeming to challenge them; then they're very quick to quote "Judge not, lest ye be judged" without its context. :lol:
Petros wrote:We may note:

Christians have no monopoly on taking offense or judging.
Theists have no monopoly on taking offense or judging.

I am not sure the rations vary significantly from one population segment to another.
And that, friends, is a sad commentary on how little we Christians (or Christ-followers) allow the fruit of the Spirit to ripen. :cry:
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