MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

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MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby natman » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:19 pm

MO mayor: Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' and not a legal issue"

http://www.onenewsnow.com/culture/2015/ ... ral-belief

Common decency and common sense are clashing with radical feminists and the ACLU in Missouri.

The American Civil Liberties Union has filed suit against the City of Springfield, where a new ordinance forbids women from going topless.

Springfield is the third-largest city in Missouri with a population of approximately 159,500.

Joe Ortwerth of the Missouri Family Policy Council says a radical feminist group from a local college is demanding that women be allowed to go shirtless to express their "equality" with men.

Ortwerth says Mayor Bob Stephens has sided with the plaintiffs, arguing in a letter to city council members that keeping women clothed in public is about "cultural beliefs" and not a legal issue.

A TV news station reported that city council members voted 5-4 in September for a tougher city ordinance that requires both men and women to cover up. A rally by a feminist group earlier this year caused the uproar.

Stephens was one of the "nay" votes, the news station reported.

It's doubtful that the mayor's beliefs reflect the values and beliefs of Springfield's citizens, Ortweth tells OneNewsNow.

"And hopefully the city council will join what we believe are the citizens' true opinions in fighting this lawsuit," he says.

A city council member called Springfield a conservative community and questioned why the feminists would demand to be nude in public.

Liberals are also trying to recall a city council member, Justin Burnett, who sponsored the strengthened version of the ordinance.
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby jochanaan » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:42 pm

"A city council member called Springfield a conservative community and questioned why the feminists would demand to be nude in public."

Topfree is not nude.

"Ortwerth says Mayor Bob Stephens has sided with the plaintiffs, arguing in a letter to city council members that keeping women clothed in public is about "cultural beliefs" and not a legal issue."

Good for Mayor Stephens! :D

"It's doubtful that the mayor's beliefs reflect the values and beliefs of Springfield's citizens, Ortweth tells OneNewsNow."

A referendum is a good way to find out what the citizens of Springfield really think. But forcing anyone to wear a top in a Missouri summer should be against the Geneva Convention rules about torture! :lol:
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby JimShedd112 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:36 am

Well said Jochanaan. I grew up in Florida where humidity can reach the high 100s with temperatures in the same range. If you breathe, you sweat and yet culture dictates ladies keep their tops on. How ridiculous is that?

I'm glad to see the mayor recognizes keeping one's top on is cultural versus legal.

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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby Petros » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:03 am

Still - it's the culture, not the laws, maked lynch mobs.

Laws at least pretend to be rational. And some of them occasionally defuse the culture.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby jochanaan » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:50 pm

JimShedd112 wrote:...I grew up in Florida where humidity can reach the high 100s...
That's a pretty good trick, since the saturation point is 100%. :)
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby MoNatureMan » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:09 am

Interesting location for that fight to take place.
Springfield is the largest of Missouri's 'College Towns'.
Four of Springfield's colleges are 'Conservative Christian'.
One Christian denomination also has a retirement center there for retired pastors and others.
It is also the national headquarters for the Assemblies of God (Pentecostal denomination).
The large Christian presence there may be why Springfield was chosen for this fight.

I hope that this gets settled 'under the radar'. If the large Christian population gets involved, I suspect they will side with the societal view of nudity (or partial nudity), instead of going to Scripture for input on the subject. Sadly, i suspect little or no good will come of this battle, at this location, this time.

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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby jochanaan » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:14 pm

MoNatureMan wrote:...Sadly, i suspect little or no good will come of this battle, at this location, this time.
Sadly, I suspect you're right. :(
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:45 pm

I have been following developments in the Free the Nipple vs Springfiled matter and some interesting stuff is turning up.
I got the material for this post in the following manner.
I did a search
-- using the IXquick search engine
-- Using the serach phrase "Free the Nipple"
-- combinedwith the search words "Jessica" and "Springfield" ....The relevance of the name Jessica is that is the first name of the first person named as a plaintif in the suit against the city of Springfield (the defendant)

I got interesting hits at :
http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2015/08/07/nearly-participate-free-nipple-rally/31327057/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article45383658.html
http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2015/08/07/nearly-participate-free-nipple-rally/31327057/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=
http://www.onenewspage.com/video/20151028/3487262/Free-the-Nipple-Organizers-React-to-Lawsuit-Against.htm
http://www.thestate.com/latest-news/article45426093.html
http://www.courthousenews.com/2015/10/29/free-the-nipple-fights-missouri-city-hall.htm

The instigators have a source of energy I had not seen mentoned before.
Free_The_Nipple_Leaders.jpeg
Amber Hutchison (left) and Jessica Lawson, members of the Free the Nipple movement, adopted two streets on the group’s behalf as part of Springfield’s Adopt-A-Street program. Lawson is one of the plaintiffs in a lawsuit filed in federal court, Free the Nipple vs. City of Springfield.

Something that while it may not be THE driving force it is likely a driving force it that the ladies Jessica pictured above each are nursing a child more than one year of age. The law only allows the nursing of infants and the definition is a child of less than 1 year of age. So their nursing of their children in a public place is criminialized. As I remember the World Health Organization advises women in Africa to nurse their children for 4 years as it is better of the child and provides a natural birth control for the women. Criminalizing breast feeding is rather stupid and as one poster I saw once showed a woman nursing in a bathroom stall with the caption of Do you s--t where you eat?

Now here we have their nemesis:
burnettJustin.jpeg
Justin Burnette
Springfield Council Member and Author of the "New and Improved" Incecent Exposure in Springfield


This fellow touts himself as a conservative Christian who is strong on family values and lower taxes. But I thought that feeding your children/nursing your babies was a family value !!!! And some how in the new ordinance he wrote has an exception that women may expose all of their breast without restriction, but only if they are engaging in "Adult Entertainment"

Another bit of sophistry that was thrown in for defense of the new law was that if women went top free to the park and took their little girl along and she was top free "Just Like Mommy"; Then if some innocent upstanding citizen happened to take a picture and the little girl was in the picture somewhere and they showed the picture to someone else or (horrors) E-mailed this poor innocent citizen could be prosecuted for distributing Child Pornography !!!! Would someone please get some sanity and realize that a 5 year old playing in the park with mommy is not pornographic! :x

Another argued that with all these women with exposed breasts could encite some "lustful men" who then might end up in prison! WHAT !!! Elsewhere they tout this law as to "protect women" If those lustful men cannot control themselves and engage in criminal acts I would have thought that prison is exactly where they belong. They did not mention a muslim name so far as I remember but that sounds like Islamic thinking

A related point on comparing the old law and the new one. The old one made it an offense of indecent exposure if a man had his genitals covered but it could be seen that his genitals were in a "turgid state" (i.e. he had a stiffy) they corrected that. Now it is ok if there is some sort of covering to have a stiffy no matter how obvious or well defined. I guess we just have to protect these men, (besides it was probably some brazen hussy with an extra low cut top showing too much "side boob" that caused him to get hard).

The mayor is the target of a recall drive the last straw being that he said both sides were making errors and that there was really no reason to restrict women in that way and the city should just ignore it and leave the old statute in place. But turnabout is fair play and and the Nemesis is also facing a recall effort and whines that it is just retribution, Excuse me, could it be that they simply think he an immature klutz just trying to make points in his local congregation at the expense of passing a bad law?

The whole thing is a travesty, with plenty of errors to go around, but I have to give the edge on rationality and good behavior to the Free The Nipple folks.

Oh, I almost forgot, There was what may have been an ironic quirk. It appears that the Free The Nipple organizers may not have known that in the same park there was a youth concert with a live band and about the time the Boobie People (as some called them) arrived the live band was playing a selcection by Judas Priest called "Breaking the Law" and we all know how a title like that created by a group known as Judas Priest is just oozing with family values and great instruction for young people, (Well judging by the titles and all ya know!)

You should be able to see most of those comments browsing the selection of URL's I may have missed some goodies and I have cited a few statements that I have gathered elsewhere at other times and would have to dig them up again.
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby Maverick » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:08 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:Another argued that with all these women with exposed breasts could encite some "lustful men" who then might end up in prison! WHAT !!! Elsewhere they tout this law as to "protect women" If those lustful men cannot control themselves and engage in criminal acts I would have thought that prison is exactly where they belong. They did not mention a muslim name so far as I remember but that sounds like Islamic thinking


Probably not so much Islamic thinking as it is the same thinking that a lot of European countries (Germany and Norway come to mind) are using to combat sexual assault by Muslims. Women should walk at arm's length from men, shouldn't wear provocative clothing, shouldn't make eye contact, etc. My understanding of the Islamic view toward exposed skin is that it can incite lust in men, but it's the woman's fault for inciting the lust, not the man's.

Bare_Truth wrote:Oh, I almost forgot, There was what may have been an ironic quirk. It appears that the Free The Nipple organizers may not have known that in the same park there was a youth concert with a live band and about the time the Boobie People (as some called them) arrived the live band was playing a selcection by Judas Priest called "Breaking the Law" and we all know how a title like that created by a group known as Judas Priest is just oozing with family values and great instruction for young people, (Well judging by the titles and all ya know!)


Breaking the law, breaking the law... that's a catchy song and now it's stuck in my head! :lol:
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby jochanaan » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:11 pm

Strange. We know the truth, and He has set us free--yet in the name of "Christianity" we see ordinances passed that mandate returning to bondage: the bondage of clothing for women, the bondage of false belief about ourselves for men. The Holy Spirit does not enslave; S/He sets us free.
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby JimShedd112 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:32 am

"Probably not so much Islamic thinking as it is the same thinking that a lot of European countries (Germany and Norway come to mind) are using to combat sexual assault by Muslims. Women should walk at arm's length from men, shouldn't wear provocative clothing, shouldn't make eye contact, etc. My understanding of the Islamic view toward exposed skin is that it can incite lust in men, but it's the woman's fault for inciting the lust, not the man's."

Very well said, Maverick. The thought just came to mind, why if men are supposedly so unable to control themselves merely by seeing a naked woman are men so trusted with running so much of everyday life, whether business or government? But, let's pass laws to enslave women so men won't lose control of their emotions and more.

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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby New_Adventurer » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:19 pm

My take on this is that the Muslim men are afraid. Afraid of their women and afraid of their own weakness at self-control. I cannot control myself in the presence of your bare skin versus I am strong enough to see you as a person and not a sex object.

The other half of the world just THINKS bare skin is against God's teaching. Challenge them to demonstrate where in scripture such a prohibition is stated. The best way I can explain it is the way the Jewish build a fence around the Jewish law so they will not break it accidently.

The real problem is that we live in a culture of prejudice. I don't like you because you are different.
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Re: MO mayor: "Clothes are just a 'cultural belief' "

Postby jasenj1 » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:27 am

Thanks for doing this research and gathering this information. I wish naturist sites had more coverage of situations like this. I know NAC reports when situations pop up, but there tends not to be much follow up, or continuing coverage.
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