NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

HOT OFF THE PRESSES - Recent news articles from around the world dealing with naturism, Christianity or Christian-naturism. If you post an original article, please see the Sticky Note for how to do it within copyright regulations.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

Moderators: jochanaan, MatthewNeal, jimmy, natman, Senior Moderator, Moderators

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby JimShedd112 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:34 pm

I believe we should be compassionate toward the refugees. However, I believe we must provide for our own citizens' safety and security first. Establish safe zones within the Middle East and allow the refugees to remain in an area and climate to which they are accustomed. Once properly vetted, allow those who wish to immigrate to do so if they qualify. Many will not want to immigrate if they can feel safe within their own environment.

Jim
Jim Shedd
NudistGrandpa
User avatar
JimShedd112
Native Resident
 
Posts: 1766
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:44 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Jim » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:00 pm

Ramblinman wrote:When asked about the possibility of terrorists in their midst, no one denies that this is a reality and not just speculation.
But we are told that there are too many immigrants to make interviewing and background checks feasible.
Excuse me, but a little logic says: if there are too many immigrants to screen for terrorists... (drum roll)
There are too many immigrants!

There are too many immigrants because there is too much violence and oppression in this world.

If you were fleeing a region where you were daily in danger of being killed, you would want to have a safe place to go. If you are a Christian, I think you will want to practice what Jesus taught.

Jesus wrote:Do to others whatever you would wish them to do to you; for that is the teaching of both the law and the prophets. - Matthew 7:12
User avatar
Jim
Native Resident
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:36 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:10 am

Jim wrote:There are too many immigrants because there is too much violence and oppression in this world.

If you were fleeing a region where you were daily in danger of being killed, you would want to have a safe place to go. If you are a Christian, I think you will want to practice what Jesus taught.


And what did Jesus teach that would persuade you to believe that all immigrants who want to come here should be allowed to enter with no limit on numbers and no background check?

As Jim suggested, we can help people overseas best by helping them overseas, particularly teaching self-help.
Ramblinman
Native Resident
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:22 am

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Jim » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:47 am

Ramblinman wrote:
Jim wrote:There are too many immigrants because there is too much violence and oppression in this world.

If you were fleeing a region where you were daily in danger of being killed, you would want to have a safe place to go. If you are a Christian, I think you will want to practice what Jesus taught.


And what did Jesus teach that would persuade you to believe that all immigrants who want to come here should be allowed to enter with no limit on numbers and no background check?

As Jim suggested, we can help people overseas best by helping them overseas, particularly teaching self-help.

What did Jesus teach?
Jesus wrote: Do to others whatever you would wish them to do to you; for that is the teaching of both the law and the prophets. - Matthew 7:12

Jesus sums up the whole teaching of God with this verse. We need to apply it to all we do, to all our decisions. So we need to think what we would wish if we were fleeing a severe violent situation.

I don't see anyone arguing against a background check. It needs to be timely and there needs to be a humane living situation provided until the check is finished. If you and your family were fleeing for your life, what reception would you wish?

"Self help"? Maybe, when one is dealing with violent oppression, what is needed is teaching on effective non-violent approaches to conflict transformation. You know, the sort of stuff that Gandhi, King, and Jesus taught.
User avatar
Jim
Native Resident
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:36 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Petros » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:14 am

Of course, none of them, so far as I know, speaks directly to a refugee situation, though we do have
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,(whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since
the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


That nicely applies to refugees, but gives no hint to the folk living on the mountain.

As for
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would
borrow of thee turn not thou away.
- that is not much help on this subject.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
User avatar
Petros
Native Resident
 
Posts: 5276
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:01 am
Location: Wisconsin

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Jim » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:08 am

Petros wrote:
As for
... Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
- that is not much help on this subject.

Why is this "not much help" relating to the subject of immigrants? I suspect you are being sarcastic.
User avatar
Jim
Native Resident
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:36 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby JimShedd112 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:37 am

Jim, I have no doubt you are a Christian and a very compassionate man who wishes to help your fellow man. But, a rhetorical question, how many of the refugees fleeing violence are you willing to take into your own home or community?

In terms of people fleeing violence, I can understand men sending their wives and children away to protect them from harm but should the men, if of sound mind and body, not fight to stop such violence? I relate this not only to the situation in the Middle East and other hot spots around the world but even to the "immigrants" flowing across our southern border. If they're able to make it across (pretty easy to do under current administration policies which restrain the Border Patrol and others tasked to defend our borders, then they're welcomed with open arms by so many who're willing to help them get all kinds of assistance paid for by the working citizens of this country who pay their taxes to the government.

I see far too many who call for helping the oppressed but not many who are ready to make sacrifices themselves to provide such help. Instead, they call upon government (read fellow citizens) to do so while they continue to live their own lives in comfort and even extravagance in the case of celebrities and the very wealthy in high positions.

I come from a military and security background. My mindset is to protect what I'm responsible for from harm and unwelcome intrusion.

Jim
Jim Shedd
NudistGrandpa
User avatar
JimShedd112
Native Resident
 
Posts: 1766
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:44 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Jim » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:14 am

JimShedd112 wrote:Jim, I have no doubt you are a Christian and a very compassionate man who wishes to help your fellow man. But, a rhetorical question, how many of the refugees fleeing violence are you willing to take into your own home or community?

My wife and I were part of Jubilee Partners (http://www.jubileepartners.org/) for about 10 years. Jubilee is an intentional Christian service community that operates a refugee welcome center. We took in refugees from many parts of the world. Since 1980 Jubilee has hosted over 3,000 refugees from more than 30 countries. Many went to host churches in the US and Canada. More than 100 still live in Comer, the little town in Georgia where Jubilee is located. The wider community there has also welcomed them. If rural Georgia can be so welcoming, I think our whole country could be.

By the way, I believe the current administration has deported record numbers.
User avatar
Jim
Native Resident
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:36 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Petros » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:45 pm

Really? You don't - or I don't - hear much about deportations. Any idea whom and whither?

No, I was not - in that case - being sarcastic though I have been known to operate in that mode. Give to him who asks of course can apply to receiving refugees [though I think in context it is different from sanctuary - is there a place in the NT where sanctuary is taught?]. But the thrust of the passage is do not resist aggression - fleeing to the hills is not necessarily resistance, but neither is it acquiescence.

So no, I do not think it applies to the discussion.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
User avatar
Petros
Native Resident
 
Posts: 5276
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:01 am
Location: Wisconsin

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:58 pm

To those who claim that the solution is always to bring immigrants to America: the numbers simply don't work.
A billion or more people probably would need to come to the United States, to fix the problem and even then only temporarily...
to the point that no corner of the Earth (including the USA) would be spared the environmental ruin resulting from overpopulation, disease, warfare and starvation.

We have a duty to protect our people and our environment from the violence, anarchy and overcrowding elsewhere.
We can and must help other countries protect their environments too, as well as help them cultivate democratic principles to the extent that they are willing to cooperate.
Ramblinman
Native Resident
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:22 am

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Jim » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:28 pm

Petros wrote:Really? You don't - or I don't - hear much about deportations. Any idea whom and whither?

Almost all Mexicans and Central Americans.
User avatar
Jim
Native Resident
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:36 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby jasenj1 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:22 am

"Hijrah" is a Muslim term that means expanding Islam by immigrating to other countries, establishing communities in the host countries, and then subverting the culture of the host country to Islam. Google it. You'll find lots of far-right conspiracy theory whack-a-do sites.

Now I am not saying all/most/very many of the refugees are consciously engaged in hijrah, but I would expect ISIS and other very high up leaders of radical Islam to be using it - that is intentionally putting their own people in situations where they are compelled to immigrate (for the glory of Allah).

Here is what Franklin Graham, head of Samaritan's Purse, an international relief organization, has to say about the refugee crisis:
An Open Letter To President Barack Obama
Dear Mr. President,
With nearly 40 years of experience in international relief work, assisting refugees and displaced people from Southeast Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East, I would like to add my voice to those supporting the establishment of safe zones in Syria. This would allow Syrians fleeing from areas of conflict inside the country to find safety, food, medicine, and shelter, and stay within their borders, nearer their homes, until a political and military settlement has been reached. Most refugees that I have worked with over the years desire to eventually return home. As we have all seen, fleeing to another country adds great risk to their lives and exposes the refugees to exploitation by unscrupulous people who deal in human trafficking.
Establishing safe zones would require partnership with and military assistance from our allies in Europe and the Middle East, and it would require a considerable commitment from the United States. Without action I believe this crisis will only escalate. Europe and the United States will be unable to handle the flood of people; and the long-term implications are great with the possibility of ISIS infiltrating the refugees and bringing their terrorist activities onto our shores. It is more effective, more economical, and safer to work with our partners and deal with the problem there.
Mr. President, I ask you to lead the way in an alliance to provide safe zones inside Syria’s borders. I pray that God will give you His wisdom as your decisions will affect the lives of so many. God bless you.
Sincerely,
Franklin Graham
jasenj1
Native Resident
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Maverick » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:09 pm

jasenj1 wrote:"Hijrah" is a Muslim term that means expanding Islam by immigrating to other countries, establishing communities in the host countries, and then subverting the culture of the host country to Islam. Google it. You'll find lots of far-right conspiracy theory whack-a-do sites.

Now I am not saying all/most/very many of the refugees are consciously engaged in hijrah, but I would expect ISIS and other very high up leaders of radical Islam to be using it - that is intentionally putting their own people in situations where they are compelled to immigrate (for the glory of Allah).


I don't necessarily believe in all the whack-a-do but I do know that Islam is a religion fraught with bloodshed and violence. I just finished reading a book called From Jihad to Jesus written by a man who was a jihadist during the Lebanese Civil War in the 70s, then came to America and eventually came to know Christ. He started reading the Bible to prove that it was fallacious, but realized that it was his own Qur'an that was fallacious.

One thing the author points out is that there were (and still are) two types of Islam, though he's not referring to Sunni and Shi'i. There was the Meccan Islam, the teachings of Mohammad during his early days in Mecca. Meccan Islam teaches peace and community among the "people of the Book" (Christians and Jews). When Mohammad was persecuted by the Meccans and fled to Medina, he started to become more powerful and the teachings changed. This Medinan Islam was much more brutal and called on Muslims to put to death the infidels. Mohammad used these teachings to wage war in the name of God, killing or otherwise "converting" Jews, Christians, and those with polytheistic beliefs, in order to gain land, power, and followers.

So Islam is both a religion of peace (Meccan) and of war (Medinan). I know there are a lot of well-meaning Muslims who come to America for a better life, who come here legally, and I welcome them. I also know there are Muslims who want nothing more than to impose Shari'a upon the West and wage jihad.

In this particular immigration/refugee situation, I have read too many news articles and seen too many videos of how these migrants act to convince me that letting them into our country is not in our best interest. A majority are men aged 18-40, fighting-age men as Jim Shedd mentioned--and yet these are the ones fleeing. Could be Hijrah.

Also of interest is that non-Muslim families in Europe typically have 1-2 children (I think I read somewhere that the average children per household is 1.5 or so). Muslim families typically have 4 or more children. In 20-30 years, if these rates stay the same, Muslims may very well be in the majority. Could be Hijrah.

Some examples of why I am not pro-refugee in this case:
Refusing Red Cross because of the red cross (just one instance): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeMIX90-594
A woman describes how refugees discussed harming and raping her during a European train ride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U36fCE_vCE
Murders, rapes, and sexual assaults are going unreported in countries like Germany and Sweden
In nuditate veritas.
User avatar
Maverick
Native Resident
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:14 am
Location: DFW, TX

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby jochanaan » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:37 pm

Ramblinman wrote:...Excuse me, but a little logic says: if there are too many immigrants to screen for terrorists... (drum roll)
There are too many immigrants!
Hiawatha, Powhatan, Massasoit, Tecumseh, Seattle, Geronimo and Crazy Horse would agree with you. :?
You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
User avatar
jochanaan
Councillor
 
Posts: 6342
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:58 pm
Location: Denver

Re: NEWS: Nudists Protest Proposed Neighbouring Migrant Home

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:21 am

jochanaan wrote:
Ramblinman wrote:...Excuse me, but a little logic says: if there are too many immigrants to screen for terrorists... (drum roll)
There are too many immigrants!
Hiawatha, Powhatan, Massasoit, Tecumseh, Seattle, Geronimo and Crazy Horse would agree with you. :?

Agreed! A society can handle immigration at a certain rate, allowing time for acculturation.
We lost a lot when we overwhelmed the indigenous tribes with hoards of Europeans.
Most of them died of disease and displacement, but the result was the same.
Until too late, they did not present a united front against this invasion.
Europeans too are not cooperating to help protect their national sovereignty, with notable exceptions of Hungary and a couple of small nations.
The UK might have had their fill of this too.
Without borders, language and culture, a people are not a nation.
Ramblinman
Native Resident
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:22 am

PreviousNext

Return to Nude News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests