nudity a must?

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Re: nudity a must?

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:25 am

Jim,

We humans all tend to be lazy. The easy thing is always to do nothing and yet none of us will be pleased with the result.

The hard thing is to have an energetic, creative activities director at a nudist camp or resort.
Someone who will do the hard work day in and day out to make women and couples feel welcome.
It's easy to make men feel welcome. But you and I know that is not enough.
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby King_David » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:52 pm

Ramblinman wrote:Then you need to be willing to go to an all-male club.
Think I am joking?
The YMCA used to be all male and had nude swims when my dad was young.
Now days seems that only the gay guys are going to all male functions, but back then folks recognized that women were often not raised to accept social nudity and men were. In my dad's day, nude swims were part of what it meant to be an active outdoors-loving red blooded man, nothing gay about it.

The nudist movement brought women in big numbers when it first started as wives and daughters came with husbands and fathers and brothers.
Part of the reason was the strict rules against singles, but part of it was a different attitude in Dad's day.

Unless a resort has a strong outreach to attract couples and couples with children, the social realities outside the resorts and campgrounds tend to make social nudity and all male activity.



Why do I need to be willing to go to an all-male club, particularly when "only the gay guys are going to all male functions"? No such demands are made on women. Furthermore, in today's world, women are raised to accept social nudity but men are not. One example of this, is that women seem compelled to go to the restroom together. They don't have near the fear of homosexual overtones that men are burdened with. You MUST be joking if you think I would even be capable of fellowshipping with all gay men.


While excluding single males from nudist venues is indeed the most effective way to insure that there is not a preponderence of males... it's like saying that the most effective way to eliminate crime is to put all criminals to death since capital punishment is the only deterent that is 100% effective. Or to put it another way, it's like solving unemployment the Russian way: they shoot all the unemployed people to make the jobs come out even with the population. Here's where they're wrong: the objective is not to eliminate men until you've reduced the number of male nudists down to the small number of female nudists; the better objective is to increase the number of female nudists to equal or exceed the number of male nudists.


As a male college student growing up just outside Pasco County, Florida - the nudist capital of the world - I was never allowed to visit a nudist facility. I never had the opportunity to experience it or learn what it was all about it; I lost interest in it, forgot about it, and eventually turned against it. As a result, when I married and had a family, my wife never got involved in it and my children never got involved in it. But now that my wife is deceased and my children are grown and gone, and I've finally been allowed to join a resort, what is the result? I've made things worse - not only am I a single male, I'm old - further enabling the stereotype that nudists are mostly old men. Had the resorts been a little smarter 40 years ago, I would have eventually brought in more women and children. Because they were unwilling to accept me when I was unable to do so, we ALL lost out when I WAS able to do so.


*** We interrupt this regularly scheduled post to bring you an excerpt from Art Linkletter's book, "Oops!" "A dozen young men were standing around in the shower of a ceratin YMCA where they were accustomed to swimming in the nude. Somebody yelled, 'The last one in the pool is a rotten egg.' Everybody ran and jumped in - and then scrambled out again and ran into the locker room. Is was 'mixed bathing day!" ***


When I belonged to the YMCA back in the sixies, we were told that swimsuits were absolutely not permitted because they shed fibers that ruined the pool filtration system. I don't recall that we ever swam with girls, but if we did have "mixed bathing days," was everyone nude or did they have to change out the entire filtration system for that one day?


I'm also wondering how mandatory nude swimming at the "Y" transitioned to mandatory clothed swimming. Was it sudden? Was it gradual? Did some people refuse to make the change? Were there widespread protests? I'm hoping some of you can fill me in. I don't know because my family moved from a large city in Illinois to a small town in Florida in the summer of 1963. When we left Illinois, the city was large enough to have both a YMCA and a YWCA, and nudity was mandatory. But when we arrived in Florida, the town only had a single "Y" shared by boys and girls alike, and bathing suits were mandatory. I assumed that was because boys and girls were swimming together, and I thought that nudity was still the rule at all real YMCAs and YWCAs, but what I have read here makes me wonder...


Why is it so hard for resorts to develop a strong outreach to attract couples and families? I'm available to put together such a program, if any resort wants to hire me. :mrgreen:
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby Ramblinman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:45 am

King_David wrote:Furthermore, in today's world, women are raised to accept social nudity but men are not. One example of this, is that women seem compelled to go to the restroom together. They don't have near the fear of homosexual overtones that men are burdened with. You MUST be joking if you think I would even be capable of fellowshipping with all gay men.


David, thanks for enduring a bit of my hyperbole! No, I don't recommend that you go to homosexual gatherings.
The sort of carefree nudity that men used to enjoy at the YMCA may be hard to recapture in this day and age.
It should not have remained male-only nudity. In a better scenario, women would have joined the men in those nude swims.



King_David wrote:...the better objective is to increase the number of female nudists to equal or exceed the number of male nudists.

I attended a nude swim hosted by a non-landed club. It was open to all. I was told that after I left that town, that the number of men increased and eventually the women stopped coming. I am not saying that is right, but that's the reality on the ground.
It is clear that more effort should have been taken to have a corresponding increase in women. Most of us want to attend events where both men and women can be found. Doing nothing is not an option.


King_David wrote:As a male college student growing up just outside Pasco County, Florida - the nudist capital of the world - I was never allowed to visit a nudist facility. I never had the opportunity to experience it or learn what it was all about it; I lost interest in it, forgot about it, and eventually turned against it.


I think that the nudist camps and resorts were focused primarily on building their little cloistered communities with little thought to the spread of naturism.
I understand how that happens, but I think that they were still struggling with the paranoia about single guys that plagues us to some extent today.

Since then, non-landed clubs seem to be a growing way to get singles involved in naturism and paired off with suitable mates.
The naturist forums seem to be a vast sea of guys married to reluctant women.
I actually meet quite a few women who are very open to it, I guess that is because I developed a naturist mindset when I was around 20 years old and tended to seek out like-minded women. It was a few years for me to get involved in social nudity, but I already had the right attitude.
In my case, it was the women in my life who pushed me even further in that direction.

For guys who come to naturism later in life, they are much more likely to be married to women with body image issues, nudity issues, etc.

King_David wrote:As a result, when I married and had a family, my wife never got involved in it and my children never got involved in it. But now that my wife is deceased and my children are grown and gone, and I've finally been allowed to join a resort, what is the result? I've made things worse - not only am I a single male, I'm old - further enabling the stereotype that nudists are mostly old men. Had the resorts been a little smarter 40 years ago, I would have eventually brought in more women and children. Because they were unwilling to accept me when I was unable to do so, we ALL lost out when I WAS able to do so.


I am sorry to hear that. But do what you can to help the people in your life escape a similar fate.


King_David wrote:When I belonged to the YMCA back in the sixies, we were told that swimsuits were absolutely not permitted because they shed fibers that ruined the pool filtration system. I don't recall that we ever swam with girls, but if we did have "mixed bathing days," was everyone nude or did they have to change out the entire filtration system for that one day?


From what I read and from what Dad told me, the YMCA did not go co-ed for a long time. It was all-male. Women had their own YWCA.
I think there may have been some truth to the "fiber clogging filters" issue, but I think it was mostly a ploy to encourage men to gain confidence in their bodies through social nudity (albeit same-sex). Women were apparently off the hook from this requirement because their "natural sense of modesty" needed protecting.
Total rubbish of course. They would have benefited from nudity too. And both men and women would have been better off with mixed nude swimming.
This occurs regularly in parts of Europe and civilization has not collapsed, in fact society is better for it.


King_David wrote:I'm also wondering how mandatory nude swimming at the "Y" transitioned to mandatory clothed swimming. Was it sudden? Was it gradual? Did some people refuse to make the change? Were there widespread protests? I'm hoping some of you can fill me in.


The Atlanta paper did a story on it and it was a nationwide sudden transition to mandatory clothed swims because the YMCA went co-ed. Nudity was no longer "appropriate" since men and women would be naked together in the pool. :shock:

And yes, some of the guys did not take kindly to being forced to wear clothing in the pool after years of happiness without it.



King_David wrote:Why is it so hard for resorts to develop a strong outreach to attract couples and families? I'm available to put together such a program, if any resort wants to hire me. :mrgreen:


I don't think it is "that hard" to proactively attract women and couples with kids. I think that many of the resort owners and staff are lazy.
When they make the effort, it is a phenomenal success. Hope you can get involved and be one of those people who makes a difference!
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby KalosSoma » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:57 am

King_David wrote:...the objective is not to eliminate men until you've reduced the number of male nudists down to the small number of female nudists; the better objective is to increase the number of female nudists to equal or exceed the number of male nudists.

That's the $64,000 question, and aggressive, creative, sensitive outreach would seem to be the answer. But just from what I've seen online, it seems that outreach from family-oriented venues and groups is weak at best.

Maybe it's because they are not sure they can make their family-friendliness "bulletproof" enough to open up to the general public, or the Christian community, and make women feel sufficiently safe -- or that they have to allow a degree of "family-unfriendliness" in order to survive economically. I've read elsewhere on CNV that some venues are family-friendly during the day, but things go south after dark. To me, that doesn't qualify as "family-friendly." If a venue is going to reach out confidently and with integrity, it's going to have to be guaranteed family-friendly 24/7/365, and have policies in place (whatever they have to be) to make it so. That may not be "fair," but I think it would have to be a prerequisite for making it sufficiently comfortable for females. (Once again, I wish some of our naturist sisters would weigh in on discussions like this and set us straight.)

I'd like for a naturist group or venue to be so confident in its family-friendliness (and have a track record to back it up) that it could, for example, mail promotional brochures to churches. What a joy it would be to know that those were landing on the desks of every church secretary in the region, or even nation, and maybe going up on bulletin boards next to the flyers for gospel sings and bean dinners. One can dream...
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby Ramblinman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:18 am

KalosSoma wrote:That's the $64,000 question, and aggressive, creative, sensitive outreach would seem to be the answer. But just from what I've seen online, it seems that outreach from family-oriented venues and groups is weak at best.


I've attended a place where the programs are good enough to attract single women and couples in sufficient numbers that gender balance is very good without quotas.
It can be done.


The Paradise resorts are not owned by naturists. It is a money making operation and they have no scruples about catering to both family naturists and wild party people who happen to enjoy being nude. Not all nudity is created equal.
In these places, there are good naturists who have memberships going back to the time that Paradise did not own the resort and long-standing friendships, some even own property and homes. The one in Georgia had a minister on staff and regular worship services at one time. Under new ownership it is a different place at least at night.
But when Paradise pushed things too far, a few walked away anyway. Some to a more family-oriented place up the road, some just became home naturists.
Not trying to judge those who stayed. They simply avoid the evil by leaving in late afternoon.
Fortunately not all of us are forced into such a situation.
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby natman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:00 pm

Ramblinman wrote:I've attended a place where the programs are good enough to attract single women and couples in sufficient numbers that gender balance is very good without quotas.


Would you mind sharing the name of the place if it is still in business?

Ramblinman wrote:They simply avoid the evil by leaving in late afternoon.


Unfortunately, that drives the establishments even harder toward the swingers, who tend to spend more money buying more liquer etc. The ONLY way that we can reverse the trend is to flood those resorts with enough families and to spend money so abundantly that the resorts would never desire to allow swingers to take over the place.
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby New_Adventurer » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:53 am

Having been to both required nudity and clothing optional resorts and clubs I could not really tell the difference.


As a single male widower I only had entry problems at one site. They said I needed to bring my wife with me. I replied that I would love to, but she had died six months prior. They said then just bring a death certificate and we will let you in. They required nudity but the tour guide had his girlfriend along on the tour and she was not nude. Go figure. That place was also the least rewqrding place I have been.



Regarding inappropriate behavior, I quote my daughter's reaction to oneof the California Dary Council advertisements; two bulls are standing on the hillside looking at a small herd of cows below, one cow walks past the bulls, and one bull says, "Eh, you work out?" My daughter said it perfectly, "Jerks come in all species." I thought it was the perfect retort and she is tired of me bragging about her observation.
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby natman » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:29 pm

New_Adventurer wrote:Regarding inappropriate behavior, I quote my daughter's reaction to oneof the California Dary Council advertisements; two bulls are standing on the hillside looking at a small herd of cows below, one cow walks past the bulls, and one bull says, "Eh, you work out?" My daughter said it perfectly, "Jerks come in all species." I thought it was the perfect retort and she is tired of me bragging about her observation.


I don't get it. :?:
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby jochanaan » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:36 pm

natman wrote:
New_Adventurer wrote:Regarding inappropriate behavior, I quote my daughter's reaction to oneof the California Dary Council advertisements; two bulls are standing on the hillside looking at a small herd of cows below, one cow walks past the bulls, and one bull says, "Eh, you work out?" My daughter said it perfectly, "Jerks come in all species." I thought it was the perfect retort and she is tired of me bragging about her observation.


I don't get it. :?:

What's to get? Jerks come in single, married, male and female species.:roll: :lol:
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby King_David » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:23 am

jochanaan wrote:
natman wrote:I don't get it. :?:

What's to get? Jerks come in single, married, male and female species.:roll: :lol:

Jerks abound in bovine as well as human species. :duh:
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby natman » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:23 am

It was the "Eh, you work out?" thing I did not get.
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:01 am

natman wrote:It was the "Eh, you work out?" thing I did not get.


Same here, I think folks should not be so thin skinned and take offense.
Rather, they should regard something such as that as a compliment.
Working out to the point that it shows outwardly is a sign of character and fortitude and to be highly praised.
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby New_Adventurer » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm

The line from the advertisement "Eh, you work out?" probably loses a little when taken out of context. In the ad, it sounded like something a half-drunk jerk would say when making an overt pass at a woman. My daughter is no shy retiring violet and her retort calling the bull a jerk was absolutely correct.


In any case, in my opinion, the jerk who makes wisecracks at women tend to only attract the least desirable. My daughter is far better than the least desirable and instantly recognized the jerk's rude comment. If the intent is to complement the lady on her fine physical condition, there are much better ways to do so, and even that ought not to be the first thing said. I would more likely start with a polite hello and develope the appreciation for her health a little later in the conversation.



My first lady and wife appreciated proper behavior, my daughter was trained to expect it, and my second lady and soon-to-be wife also appreciates it.
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby natman » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:27 pm

SON-cerely,
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Re: nudity a must?

Postby maavrik » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:22 pm

Надо надо,еще как надо!
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