Gospel Presentation

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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby bn2bnude » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:11 pm

ezduzit wrote:Not selling anything since..................

Salvation is a free gift...take it or leave it............... if you prefer to "open" the gift and expose all its beauty , promises etc to those who you would like to see accept it so be it....
A bad example but a fireman does not rush into a burning building and launch into a dissertation on the benefits of leaving the building . Ever read "Sinners in the Hands of An Angry God" preached by Jonathan Edwards ?
Blunt , yes but the Bible says "today is the day of salvation"
2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
IMO folks should be dealt with as if they have just moments to live because that really is the case is it not?
Ez


I was masticating on this a bit and had a thought...

My guess is our terminology is a bit different. I suspect you would phrase it something like Jesus did with the "someone plants, waters, .... harvests"
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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What Happens When a Person Is Born Again Gospel Presentation

Postby ezduzit » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:52 pm

Lesson 23 – What Happens When a Person Is Born Again by Bob Sharpe 2007
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
– 2 Cor. 5:15
The most important thing that can happen in the life of any person is the born again experience.
This is far more important than any other life event – graduation, marriage, career, having children, getting rich – or any other life event you can think of. Being born again is the only life event that can change a person’s life from the inside out, put a person in right relationship with God and change their eternal destiny.
Most of us really don’t regard this life experience with the same importance that God does. We need to acknowledge how important it is in our own lives, and how extremely important it is for us to help others to come to the knowledge of Christ.
Various Bible scholars have listed from 30 to 60 things that happen to a person the moment he or she is born again. The list given here is divided into categories. It is probably not exhaustive.
However, it should give us a good appreciation of what happened to us when we received Christ as our Savior.
1. New Standing with God
a. Justified – Rom. 8:1
b. Redeemed – Gal. 3:13; Rev. 5:9
c. Forgiven – Acts 13:38; 26:18
d. Reconciled to God – Rom. 5:10
e. Born into the family of God – John 3:3-7
f. Sealed by the Holy Spirit until the Day of Redemption – Eph 1:13; 4:30
2. New Identity
a. Before conversion to Christ
i. Sinners – 1 Tim. 1:5
ii. Dead in trespasses and sins – Eph. 2:1
iii. Without God in the world – Eph. 2:12
iv. Being far off from God – Eph. 2:13
v. Worthy of damnation
b. Our identity as believers
i. Saints – Phil. 1:1
ii. Children of God – we’ll see this in a minute
iii. Children of the King – we’ll see this in a minute
iv. Ambassadors for Christ – 2 Cor. 5:20
v. Pilgrims and strangers in this world – 1 Pet. 2:11
3. New Family – Eph. 2:19
a. Adoption from one family to another – Gal. 4:25
i. Before conversion – Child of the devil – John 8:44; 1 John 3:8
ii. Since conversion – Child of God – John 1:12
b. New Father – John 1:12; 1 John 3:1
Lesson 23 – What Happens When a Person Is Born Again
©2007 Bob Sharpe 2
c. New family members – Rom. 16:1-4 and following
i. We are brothers and sisters to all other true believers in the world
ii. Some of the relations we have with our brothers and sisters in Christ
become stronger than the relations we have with our physical brothers and
sisters. – John 13:35
d. New household privileges
i. Access to our Father – Eph 2:14
ii. Inheritance – Acts 26:18; Rom. 8:17
iii. Accepted as a family member – Eph. 1:6
4. New Nature
a. Before conversion we had only a sin nature – Matt. 7:21-22; Eph. 2:1-3
b. After conversion we have a new nature that leads us toward righteousness – Eph.
2:10; 1 John 3:9
5. New purpose for living
a. Mental health professionals and other experts say a healthy person needs a
purpose for life greater than self. Groups like AA acknowledge this.
b. Christ gives us purpose for life
i. All people were made to know and serve God. – Rom 14:4; 16:1
ii. Knowing and fitting into God’s purpose creates psychological well-being.
6. New Promises for Life
a. Christ is the Enabler of my abilities – Phil. 4:13 / John 15:5
b. Christ is the Supplier of my needs – Phil. 4:19
c. Christ is the Master of my life’s challenges – Rom. 8:28
7. New Beginning – 2 Cor. 5:17
a. It doesn’t matter how badly a person’s life is messed up, Jesus offers a new
beginning.
b. Even a terrorist could have a new beginning – 1 Tm. 1:12-14
8. New Hope
In Christ, our hope is in a sure thing. It is not wishful thinking. It is the expectation that
God’s promises of good things will surely come to pass.
a. There is no hope without Jesus – Eph. 2:12; 1 Thess. 4:13
b. Our hope is eternal in Jesus – Titus 2:13; 3:7; 1 Pet. 1:3
9. New Citizenship
a. We are citizens of Heaven – Eph. 2:19; Phil 3:20
10. New Quality of Life – John 10:10
a. Gal 5:22-23
i. Love
ii. Joy
iii. Peace – Phil 4:7
iv. Longsuffering
v. Kindness
vi. Goodness
vii. Faithfulness
viii. Gentleness
ix. Self-control
11. New Eternal Destination
a. Before salvation, we were bound for Hell – Rev. 21:8
b. As children of God, we will share His heavenly home – 2 Cor. 5:8
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby ezduzit » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:56 pm

bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:Not selling anything since..................

Salvation is a free gift...take it or leave it............... if you prefer to "open" the gift and expose all its beauty , promises etc to those who you would like to see accept it so be it....
A bad example but a fireman does not rush into a burning building and launch into a dissertation on the benefits of leaving the building . Ever read "Sinners in the Hands of An Angry God" preached by Jonathan Edwards ?
Blunt , yes but the Bible says "today is the day of salvation"
2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
IMO folks should be dealt with as if they have just moments to live because that really is the case is it not?
Ez


I was masticating on this a bit and had a thought...

My guess is our terminology is a bit different. I suspect you would phrase it something like Jesus did with the "someone plants, waters, .... harvests"


I can agree with you on this point , often times one is not born again the first time they hear the gospel.
Again the definition of the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ..... after accepting the free gift of salvation numerous things take place within the heart of the believer.
I`ve posted another mans view of this
Ez
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby Johannes_1965 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:19 am

To me the Church, baptism and the other sacraments are an essential part of the Gospel Presentation.
So what is the meaning of baptism in your thinking, when it doesn't save?
Why did Jesus command it (Mat 28,19)?
Johannes
"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit..."
(John 15,5)
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby ezduzit » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:47 am

Johannes_1965 wrote:To me the Church, baptism and the other sacraments are an essential part of the Gospel Presentation.
So what is the meaning of baptism in your thinking, when it doesn't save?
Why did Jesus command it (Mat 28,19)?
Johannes


Rom. 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Baptism identifies us with Christ.......Ie a picture of our death to self.......raised to newness of life


Note ! baptism does not save , if it could then Christ died in vain , there would be no need for Him to shed His precious blood.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Ez
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby Petros » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:53 am

I have to believe that from the standpont of the eternal conversion is compldete and instantaneous. But for us, embedded in a time-dominated world, it is a process. Hear the gospel, most of us many times before considering assent. Once we get there, it can take long years [He's still working on me] before it permeates and percolates.

Throw a sugar cube into water - a simple act, it s done. But tit takes time before the whole lump dissolves.

As for the sacraments - no, baptism does not convert [else why confirmation?] But neither are they as some would suggest mere symbolic action, not simple announcements and reminders. If a believer dies unbaptized, wikll he be lost? I think not. Where are the baptismal records for the apostles? Who baptized John? If it were an issue for us, it might be recorded.

But does baptism confer an extra layer of protection? I think sdo.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby Johannes_1965 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:21 pm

ezduzit wrote:...Note ! baptism does not save , if it could then Christ died in vain , there would be no need for Him to shed His precious blood.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Ez

Thank you for your answer - Baptism as identification with Christ's death and resurrection.

I believe that baptism confers the grace coming from Christ's death and from his precious blood.
So it is God how identifies us with the death and resurrection of his Son.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The Necessity of Baptism
1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.59 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.60 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.61 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."62 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"63 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

59 Cf. Jn 3:5[ETML:C/].
60Cf. Mt 28:19-20; cf. Council of Trent (1547) DS 1618; LG 14; AG 5.
61Cf. Mk 16:16.
62Second Vatican Council: GS 22 # 5; cf. LG 16; AG 7.
63 Mk 10 14; cf. 1 Tim 2:4.
"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit..."
(John 15,5)
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:18 pm

The sin is not in the failure to be baptized, but in the refusal to obey the commandment to be baptized.
Think carefully! It is not the same thing.
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby Bare_Truth » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:08 pm

ezduzit wrote:In order to avoid false professions so rampant in today s "easy prayer ism " movement , I`ve put together this presentation ..............


I think I am sort of echoing Petros when I ask, Just who is the intended audience for this presentation. I have never been too favorably impressed with the typical emotional "altar call". I think becoming a Christian requires a lot more re-education than that. A lot of progress may be accomplished in a short time but I consider that the real conversion to a mature Christian takes years. The turning point can occur quickly but conversion process is not so quick or easy.

Even if you look at the case of Paul, prior to the road to damascus I think he was building up a lot of baggage that was going to condemn him solidly enough to make him change. and after he reach Damascus there was a lot of instruction in the ways of real righteousness.
I never met anyone that I could not learn something from.
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby MoNatureMan » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:24 pm

There is nothing wrong with a process or altar call, it has brought many to the knowledge of Christ..
But yes I agree that God can reach people in so many ways.

For me I grew up in church but didn't believe.
Later in life I was again confronted with the Gospel.
I prayed 'If you are real prove yourself to me.'
I was driving by a playground and a pop fly was headed right for my windshield and then made a hard right turn. I know enough about gravity and motion to know that, that did not just happen. I got the message and commuted myself to Christ. That was just the beginning of my walk with Him.
If a person is REALLY seeking God (not just playing a game), He will show Himself to them. I don't know how. Maybe a confirming word. Maybe a miracle like what I saw. Maybe parts of the Bible just standing out. But He will show Himself.

In Him
Ron :cross:
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby Petros » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:19 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:
ezduzit wrote:In order to avoid false professions so rampant in today s "easy prayer ism " movement , I`ve put together this presentation ..............


I think I am sort of echoing Petros when I ask, Just who is the intended audience for this presentation. I have never been too favorably impressed with the typical emotional "altar call". I think becoming a Christian requires a lot more re-education than that. A lot of progress may be accomplished in a short time but I consider that the real conversion to a mature Christian takes years. The turning point can occur quickly but conversion process is not so quick or easy.


Even if you look at the case of Paul, prior to the road to damascus I think he was building up a lot of baggage that was going to condemn him solidly enough to make him change. and after he reach Damascus there was a lot of instruction in the ways of real righteousness.



Quite. It is kind of a hair on the csamel thing - the evidence piles up, and like supercooled water things are stable until - Paul headed for Damascus - comes the trigger, the bottle is shaken, and you crystllize to a bottle of ice.

After which, in my case, and as you suggest in Paul's, comes the exploration / {re} education.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby MoNatureMan » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:37 pm

I hear what is being said but the 'alter- call'. But it has been used to awaken many from a life of sin. Should we just get rid of it because some don't like it? I think not.
I have been trained in a program called 'Evangelism Explosion' by D James Kennedy. It has been used to awaken many from a life going to hell.

I am aware that some are offended by an 'alter-call' or a program like 'EE' but Scripture talks of the Gospel being an offense.

What I am saying is we need to use these tools and and then continue to disciple,

In Him
Ron :cross:
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby ezduzit » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:35 pm

MoNatureMan wrote:I hear what is being said but the 'alter- call'. But it has been used to awaken many from a life of sin. Should we just get rid of it because some don't like it? I think not.
I have been trained in a program called 'Evangelism Explosion' by D James Kennedy. It has been used to awaken many from a life going to hell.

I am aware that some are offended by an 'alter-call' or a program like 'EE' but Scripture talks of the Gospel being an offense.

What I am saying is we need to use these tools and and then continue to disciple,

In Him
Ron :cross:


Personally I have no problem with an altar call if it is not used to manipulate people.
It does and will bring folks to a decision of the heart if used properly.
Ez
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby ezduzit » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:56 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:
ezduzit wrote:In order to avoid false professions so rampant in today s "easy prayer ism " movement , I`ve put together this presentation ..............


I think I am sort of echoing Petros when I ask, Just who is the intended audience for this presentation. I have never been too favorably impressed with the typical emotional "altar call". I think becoming a Christian requires a lot more re-education than that. A lot of progress may be accomplished in a short time but I consider that the real conversion to a mature Christian takes years. The turning point can occur quickly but conversion process is not so quick or easy.

Even if you look at the case of Paul, prior to the road to damascus I think he was building up a lot of baggage that was going to condemn him solidly enough to make him change. and after he reach Damascus there was a lot of instruction in the ways of real righteousness.


1st> " the intended audience" is any lost person

2nd >I`m concerned that you feel conversion may take years, are we removing the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing the lost to Christ? Your post contains many true statements about Paul but IMO he was "saved" / "converted" on the road to Damascus Note! Acts 9: 5,6 It didn`t take him long to "undo" all his "religious" training
I am finding that the majority of folks I talk to have no "religious training" other than feeling like they are "good enough " to go to heaven .
Ez
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby bn2bnude » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:55 pm

ezduzit wrote:
MoNatureMan wrote:I hear what is being said but the 'alter- call'. But it has been used to awaken many from a life of sin. Should we just get rid of it because some don't like it? I think not.
I have been trained in a program called 'Evangelism Explosion' by D James Kennedy. It has been used to awaken many from a life going to hell.

I am aware that some are offended by an 'alter-call' or a program like 'EE' but Scripture talks of the Gospel being an offense.

What I am saying is we need to use these tools and and then continue to disciple,

In Him
Ron :cross:


Personally I have no problem with an altar call if it is not used to manipulate people.
It does and will bring folks to a decision of the heart if used properly.
Ez


I definitely have bias' against some of the "alter calls" I've been seated in. Where is the line between manipulation and not?
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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