the "Nones"

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Re: the "Nones"

Postby ezduzit » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:37 am

My problem with the "nones"............
Ez

1)If truly saved ie born again> to NOT attend church ie assemble with other believers is in disobedience to the instruction given in ( Heb.10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.)
2) Church "discipline" is impossible since they are not part of an assembly (Matt.18:15 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.)
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby MoNatureMan » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:58 am

It looks like my post got lost. Will try again.

I think the word 'Nones' is too general for some of our conversations.

There are those that won't go to 'church'.
There are those that won't belong to a 'denomination'.
There are those that don't believe in god or believe in many gods.
And of course those that don't know what they believe.

I know of people that are so hurt from church split that they will not go back to 'church'.

I think it is important for Christians to have fellowship with other believers (if possible) but that does not have to be in a 'church building'.

Sadly the greatest part of the 'Nones' that I know are not Christians. This is a societal problem and a sign of the times.

Is BBCode off for everybody in this section?

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Re: the "Nones"

Postby jjsledge » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:20 am

I left institutional "church" not because I lost my faith, but to keep from losing. I meet weekly with about 10 to 20 other believers and seek the will of God and the mind of Christ together. No "preacher" or song leader or paid staff. We search the scriptures as did the Bereans.

Read "The Untold Story of the New Testament Church": An Extraordinary Guide to Understanding the New Testament by Frank Viola

http://www.amazon.com/Untold-Story-Test ... ent+church

Jerry
Those who judge the motives of othere are simply revealing what's in their own hearts. Frank Viola "Revise Us Again" p.89
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby natman » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:19 am

MoNatureMan wrote:Is BBCode off for everybody in this section?


No. It appears that it was only you and only in this forum... in this case. It may be a result of the move and update that I did.

Your profile indicates that they should be on by default.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: the "Nones"

Postby jochanaan » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:36 am

Perhaps what we are seeing is a deep discontent with the "organized" aspect of "organized religion." Yes, many Nones have rejected any concept of God; but there are more that perhaps have only experienced a caricature of Christianity; or grew up in a church that, for whatever reason, does not live, portray or effectively show God's love to them.

I feel that God is calling us, not to judge those on the outside--He will do that in His own time--but first and foremost to look at ourselves and make sure that, whatever other churches may do, we treat all we meet with God's compassionate love.
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby natman » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:02 pm

bn2bnude wrote:I am a "none". It's not that I won't go to a church. It is, however, that I don't regularly go to a church."


Bn2bnude,

With all due respect, I would not consider you a "none". Based on the article, a "none" is someone who has no interest in religion or religious activities, not merely someone who does not (regularly) attend church.

Although you may not regularly attend a church "building", it sounds like you are frequently attending "Church", which is fellowshipping with other Christians. Certainly you do so here, albeit virtually.

Also, based on your comments and you knowledge about Scripture and Christianity, I would say that you far more than a slight interest in religion and religious affairs.

Therefore I think that, although you may be a "one" (lone Christians), you are far from being a "none".
SON-cerely,
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby bn2bnude » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:18 pm

natman wrote:
bn2bnude wrote:I am a "none". It's not that I won't go to a church. It is, however, that I don't regularly go to a church."


Bn2bnude,

With all due respect, I would not consider you a "none". Based on the article, a "none" is someone who has no interest in religion or religious activities, not merely someone who does not (regularly) attend church.

Although you may not regularly attend a church "building", it sounds like you are frequently attending "Church", which is fellowshipping with other Christians. Certainly you do so here, albeit virtually.

Also, based on your comments and you knowledge about Scripture and Christianity, I would say that you far more than a slight interest in religion and religious affairs.

Therefore I think that, although you may be a "one" (lone Christians), you are far from being a "none".

Thanks for the comment...

If the definition of the "None" in the article is consistent with others I've read, I think I am considered a "None" in that sense...

These are the "nones" — the roughly one fifth of all Americans, and 32 percent of those under 30, who profess no religious affiliation at all. For these tens of millions of people, religion is largely a matter of indifference.

A good number of the nones pray and claim to have spiritual experiences. But they have no interest in joining concrete religious institutions or abiding by religious traditions of any kind. For them, organized religion simply isn't an active option.

In the strictest sense, I suppose, I have a religious affiliation but I do not claim a "church home".

Because of those around me, I also wouldn't say I was a "one" either, however.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby bn2bnude » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:25 pm

Ez,

I found your concerns (i.e. "problem with") predictable...

Let's look at them one by one...
ezduzit wrote:My problem with the "nones"............
Ez

1)If truly saved ie born again> to NOT attend church ie assemble with other believers is in disobedience to the instruction given in ( Heb.10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.)

I have several things to say here....

First. I don't know what you mean by "truly saved" but we've been over that before...

Second. You seem to equate "assembling together" as "going to church". I have several things to say about that.
    I believe, if you look closely at what this is trying to say, the verse doesn't talk about church, the "ecclesia" but, instead an "assembling". Literally, the word is related to the synagog but doesn't specify a particular place.
    If this isn't talking about a particular building, it must be referring to a community instead. I've been at churches where I've deliberately avoided "community" because the people I would deal with were bitter and manipulative. At other times, I've been in community with a fellow believer as we worked on my car or his computer or went down to the shooting range.
    Many times, going to church for the weekly sermon doesn't spur community. Think about it... You show up. You likely talk to the same people about surface things, then sit facing the front of the church watching the people on the stage and the back of other peoples heads. Sometimes, there is a greeting time where you are able to exchange other surface greetings but never really forming real community.

ezduzit wrote:2) Church "discipline" is impossible since they are not part of an assembly (Matt.18:15 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.)

I find reference to this interesting for several reasons.
    I have a different take on the results of this passage than many. Largely because if you consider that Jesus was the one who said this and Matthew (a publican) was the one who wrote this. Consider how this is normally interpreted (expulsion/shunning) vs. how Jesus treated publicans and sinners.
    I find it interesting that this is thought of as a "church discipline" passage. The words discipline and disciple are the same roots.
    This passage only invokes the larger gathering when a one-on-one and several-on-one approach fail to restore what I believe to be the relationship between believers. The ONLY time the larger assembly is involved.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Petros » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:48 pm

As not infrequently bn2bnude is saving a pile of petros typogs.

I wll add:
Mo Nature man:


There are those that won't go to 'church'.
There are those that won't belong to a 'denomination'.
There are those that don't believe in god or believe in many gods.
And of course those that don't know what they believe.

Allow me to expand:
There are those that won't go to 'church'.
AND those that don't go to 'church'.
There are those that won't belong to a 'denomination'.
AND those that don't belong to a 'denomination'.
There are those that don't believe in god or believe in many gods.
AND those that won't believe in god.

The won'ts and don'ts are different categories.
We neither currently are involved with a church institution nor are we part of a denomination. We WOULD if called - it is a matter not of will nut of leading.

My brother is atheist not because he hapopens not to believe in God, but because he demands that God not exist.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby MoNatureMan » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:35 am

I think we can get in trouble when we refer to church as only at a church building.
In many nations the Church has had to go underground to avoid...
In WWII Germany the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf and cross was replaced by the Nazi flag. True Christians had to fellowship 'underground'.

The way things are going in America I believe the True American Church will also have to go underground. (Assuming that a pre-trib rapture doesn't happen first.)

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Re: the "Nones"

Postby ezduzit » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:54 am

There are various reasons used to justify for not assembling together, either at a "church " building or a home (Romans 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.)
BUT IMO without the fellowship of other believers the "fire" will die out ie at least two logs needed to keep a fire going...... when the fire is gone , gone too is the "zeal" , commitment , purpose of our salvation, that is to say living a Christ like life , and sharing the good news with those who do not know HIM .
Ez
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby ezduzit » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:06 am

A quote from the original post....................

"I'm talking about the growing number of people, mainly in the U.S. and Europe, who couldn't care less about religious holidays and rituals. These are the "nones" — the roughly one fifth of all Americans, and 32 percent of those under 30, who profess no religious affiliation at all. For these tens of millions of people, religion is largely a matter of indifference.

A good number of the nones pray and claim to have spiritual experiences. But they have no interest in joining concrete religious institutions or abiding by religious traditions of any kind. For them, organized religion simply isn't an active option"

Paragraph 1 ............ The lost
Paragraph 2 .............The "religious lost

Ez
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby MoNatureMan » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:43 pm

An exception to getting together with other believers would be those that have been put in prison for their faith. But even they seek fellowship.

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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Petros » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:46 am

Ah, fellowship.

Therein lies the rub.

If Tony and I are in the same space listening to the same hymn and hearing the same sermon and joining in the same prayers, do we have fellowship? Arguably the answer should be yes - but we never see each other outside church and never talk to one another in church and if we did would likely not get each other. In just about any group, some are outsiders or next thing to it. Even in a church focussed on liturgy rather than fellowship, some of us are not of the consensus belief system.

We have fellowship - not here in town. We have close fellowship with Nice Niece Liesl and family, currently involved in a Catholic parish out west, some degree of fellowship with a coworker involved in his son's evangelical church, about the same tor a tad more with my herself's little brother in Texas - a different syle evangelical group.
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby jochanaan » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:08 am

Sometimes, Petros, fellowship begins with being willing to say the first word.
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