the "Nones"

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Re: the "Nones"

Postby natman » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:50 pm

I do not consider sitting and listening to a sermon to be "fellowship" (unless the congregation is intimately involved, as some of the black Southern Baptists and Charismatic churches do). To me, the fellowship comes from the smaller group meetings, such as Sunday School classes, where we get to share more about ourselves, or concerns our joys, study and pray together. Our Sunday School group is fairly tight and get together regularly for fun, prayers and joint missions work. In fact, we are getting together this Saturday for social gathering, fun and games at our house.

Our church also has regular whole-church socials to allow us to meet others whom we do not interface with on a regular basis.

IMHO, sermons and worship services are intended to prepare us to be in the presence of God and to receive His Word as a large group and to present the general direction of the local church body.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Petros » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:45 pm

natman - I would tend to agree. The service / liturgy is a differentr thing. You CAN have fellowship, particularly in a smaller more involved group [we certainly had in what I will call my "terminal" church, just as in a small seminar at the U you can be team or family. But the norm is focus on the subject or object, not one another, as in the classroom.. Some try to build "audience participation" artificially - but it rarely really works.
The fraternizing goes on in the hallway or the church hall.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Petros » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:48 pm

jochanaan wrote:Sometimes, Petros, fellowship begins with being willing to say the first word.


Fo tru - but experiernce has shown that in certyain combinations A may say any number of first words without B registering the fact. Herself has been trying for decades to commiunicate with my bil Magnus, and the post it notes just do not stick to him.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby jochanaan » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:39 am

Yeah, I get that, Petros. And sometimes strangers can be more receptive to certain words than your own family. "A prophet...in his own country..."
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Bare_Truth » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:32 pm

Conventicle: A new word to me, that I just ran across, I think it might speak to some of what this strip is all about. Better than a dictionary, see the article at :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventicle
And of course the conventicle acts are a bit of interesting history which makes the fellow in the foreground of the second picture more understandable.
I never met anyone that I could not learn something from.
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby ezduzit » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:31 am

Very interesting ! thanks , another term for "underground" church ?
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:18 am

My favorite quote from the article:
" When Archbishop Sharp asked the provost to call out the militia to disperse the crowd, the provost said he could not do so, since the militia had joined the worshipers."
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby MoNatureMan » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:52 am

Interesting thought.
If/when the Church has to go underground, the believers will have to be closer then the average church goers today.

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Re: the "Nones"

Postby bn2bnude » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:53 am

Back to the Nones...

Is it possible that this is just a label?

We tend to label things we don't like or disagree with in ways that are negative.

I've mentioned it before, I am intrigued by the application of mimetic theory to the story of mankind and faith. From a series on Youtube called "Mimetic Theory 101" comes this video on competition (5 min).


What if the label "nones" was really just a way to describe something the authors or researchers found different. Since most of the articles I've seen are more descriptive, could it be possible that the people who fall into that label are also being scapegoated by the researchers and others, then, who adopt the label?
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Ramblinman » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:39 am

Maybe it is just me, but rather than redirecting us to a 5-minute Youtube video on some obscure theory, couldn't you simply succinctly tell us in a short written paragraph HERE what it is you are trying to say?

If you are referring to people without formal religious affiliation, it begs the question, "are they rejecting formal ties or rejecting Christ?"

King David sinned by taking a census of the children of Israel. 2 Samuel 24
I am not saying that census taking is a tool of the devil, but in matters of organized religion, we tend to place undue value on that which we can readily quantify, less value on intangibles and externalities.

I believe in the holy catholic church, the church invisible is always a superset of the church visible.
I do not profess allegiance to the Roman Catholic Church, but do not oppose it in matters where it is in conformity to the Holy Bible.
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby bn2bnude » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:34 pm

Ramblinman wrote:Maybe it is just me, but rather than redirecting us to a 5-minute Youtube video on some obscure theory, couldn't you simply succinctly tell us in a short written paragraph HERE what it is you are trying to say?

I do this because he states things better than I could. Largely because he is a believer in the theory, I am just an onlooker.

Ramblinman wrote:If you are referring to people without formal religious affiliation, it begs the question, "are they rejecting formal ties or rejecting Christ?"

King David sinned by taking a census of the children of Israel. 2 Samuel 24
I am not saying that census taking is a tool of the devil, but in matters of organized religion, we tend to place undue value on that which we can readily quantify, less value on intangibles and externalities.

I believe in the holy catholic church, the church invisible is always a superset of the church visible.
I do not profess allegiance to the Roman Catholic Church, but do not oppose it in matters where it is in conformity to the Holy Bible.

What I was getting at is human nature seems to be inclined to gather in tribes. This seems to date back to the early days of Genesis.

So, if I have a tribe that believes in particular doctrine, I tend to scapegoat those outside the tribe.

What I was thinking was we have a tribe of people that regularly go to church, believe certain tenants, gather frequently, etc. In order to bond the tribe, they may have looked outside the tribe and seen those people who do not gather frequently or, to go back to the definition EZ stated, doesn't observe even the religious holidays. No religious affiliation.

Since I notice this group, and to keep individuals from my tribe leaving the tribe, I point to that group, labeling it with a more pejorative word such as "nones" and make them a scapegoat -- something to avoid.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Petros » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:20 am

This came up in conversation:

"Where two or three are gathered together..." there will develope an ingroup, in which Herself and I will not be included.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby vycna » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:42 pm

bn2bnude said:
"I spent an overnight to make sure I answered this well.
I am a "none". It's not that I won't go to a church. It is, however, that I don't regularly go to a church. That does not mean, however, that I am "forsaking fellowship" as vycna implies.
I'm willing to continue a dialog about this. I am, however, unwilling to answer accusations."

I am meaning no accusation, as it maybe was perceived. If any are not in a formal church, but in fellowship with other believers, this qualifies for what is needed of that. I would just say it should be as often as we might do so. I also say there are many, many things, in which we should all grow, self included. Fellowship, with God and with fellow believers, is desirable for that.
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby Petros » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:21 pm

I [and okay, I am in much the same situation, but I think as I think and if I were a card carrying member of the Abounding Grace Community Fellowship I would not think differently] see here no accusation nor room for an accusation. It is the mirror image of my former pastor's "problem" - problem for him, not for God. This is the one who, you may recall, was depressed because "his" church attracted small numbers of wounded Christians who moved out as they started to recover [as if there is something wrong with a hospital].

Of course, we know - do we not - that it is no special power of the pastor and his preaching / teaching that makes a megachurch, and no special deficiency in a pastor that keeps a church small.

And no special sanctity - or fault - adheres to the life-of-the-fellowship pew warmer, nor is there any deficiency - or virtue - in the unchurched isolate.

As long, of course, as we are listening to God's instructions and complying.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: the "Nones"

Postby jochanaan » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:42 pm

Petros wrote:...Of course, we know - do we not - that it is no special power of the pastor and his preaching / teaching that makes a megachurch, and no special deficiency in a pastor that keeps a church small...
We know this, if we think about it in silence--but there is so much teaching, so many books published, so many (probably: I'm not a TV watcher) commercials saying "This megachurch got that way because God blessed it!!!" Perhaps it is time to eliminate any vestige of "Big is Beautiful" thinking from our minds and remember not to despise "the day of small things..." (Zechariah 4:10) It will take some reconditioning--but we on this forum are good at reconditioning ourselves. We've already done it regarding the human body! :)
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