Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

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Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:51 am

I think this belongs in "Christianity and other religions" because it deals with the issue of; "When is a religious person a Christian and when is this religious person, something else ?". Further complicating the issue is the context in which one is to make such a judgement. I came to this question because of the way society is going and speculating that it would be nice if there were a "Christian Naturist Society one could join that was like AANR, or TNS but rejected odious intrusions of societal trends which are offensive or downright anathema to Christians who strive to abide by scripture. Chief among these issues at the moment is homosexuality or Abortion on Demand, with other perversions yet on the horizon, (e.g. NAMBLA, Zoosexuality, etc.).

To form such a Christian Naturist Society one would need to do what all associations do but I will use naturist resorts for an example. Naturist resorts often exclude or include or limit visitors based on various life style characteristics such as; married, accompanied by member of opposite sec, no singles except as youth members of a family group, no criminal background with respect to sex linked crimes etc.

So the question that came to me is how for the purposes of a Christian Naturist Society would one decide if a prospective member would fit within the community being formed. For instance would one might wish to exclude Jehovah's Witnesses. :lol: (Ok, I know they would almost certainly exclude themselves, but I just wanted to start off with something obvious). I suppose that there are some fundamentalists who would exclude Roman Catholics, but I think that would be unnecessary because although they hold doctrines that others reject, they do not condone anything that is inherently objectionable to general Christian conduct that is blatantly at odds with a Christian Naturist Society. Likewise, should there be exclusion for non-trinitarians, who believe that the trinity doctrine is just a poor fit when trying to describe the Godhead? Presumably most would find the practice of polygamy to be problematic because it not only runs contrary to most of "Christianity" but also the law in most jurisdictions (granted that with current trends it might be legalized).

In an effort to limit topic drift, it could be useful to summarize the question as,
"Is there a practical way to decide if a believer is "Christian Enough" for membership in a "Christian Naturist Society ?".


For thoughts on the issue I have kicked around the idea that perhaps the prospective member needs to hold to:
-- All the items in column A
-- A minimum percetngte of the items in column B
and
-- None of the items in column C
A systematic approach approach such as this then requires deciding what to put in Columns A, B, and C.

So then, lets see what you all have to offer as thoughts of how a "Christian Naturist Society" might be composed in an inclusive but protected way for Christian values and conduct.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby jochanaan » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:29 am

You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:41 pm

Your suggestion for CNC does represent a good example for guidlines to consider however It misses the mark for the kind of "Christian Naturist Society" that I had in mind.
To Wit:

-- On the CNC web page http://www.christiannc.com/cms/index.php?page=Support it says:
CNC wrote:CNC is an AANR (American Association for Nude Recreation) Member.

-- On the AANR web page http://www.aanr.com/about-aanr it says:
AANR wrote:AANR and its many loyal volunteers advocate, educate and work hard to enhance opportunities for enjoyment of wholesome clothes-free experiences. In the years ahead we seek to grow our ranks by increasing membership and chartering clubs that commit to upholding our principles and standards.
...........
AANR's standards state:

AANR welcomes all people willing to conform to its principles and standards, regardless of age, gender, marital status, religious beliefs, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.
Emphasis Added

From this I conclude that CNC must not exclude anyone of any religious belief and sexual orientation or AANR is not enforcing its standards.

I would prefer to see a Christian Naturist Society that does not subordinate biblical principles to political or civil correctness. There are religions that hold to very unchristian and anti-biblical religious beliefs and there are individuals who claim that their sexual orientation is to horses ! :shock: Granted that unusual sexual orientation is illegal in all but a few countries but here we already have those who claim that, despite the scriptures, their sexual orientation is to members of the same sex and the zoophiles are following the same agenda and strategy.

I was thinking of a "Christian Naturist Society" that was, shall we say, "not so liberal" and was independent enough not to subscribe to any other organization's standards that are anti-biblical.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby bn2bnude » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:10 pm

For a group of people who would largely be shunned (or mocked) by society if the passion of running around without clothes were known. From a group who would be ostracized by many churches if they knew. From a group who is frustrated because too many resorts want to keep us from enjoying the facilities because our spouses would not join us...

The first thing we propose, before a group is even formed, is excluding people because of their beliefs/orientation, etc?

It seems to me that that is NOT very much like Christ.

I know the response... But what if they spread their "heresy". Think about the reverse... What if this was the only way they may change their mind.

Yes, I too suggest http://www.christiannc.com/

We keep talking about how terrible things have gotten in our country and we need to enact laws to force people to change... Maybe the problem is Christianity, like Israel before it, put up walls to exclude others rather than to be that lighthouse to the world that was intended.

Just to clarify this, put up all the standards you want for leadership... Don't exclude those that are different from otherwise participating.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby Petros » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:11 am

Oh, la all over again.

I will try to be concise, though I am not noted for concision.

A. Definition:

Christian as in:
1 follows Christ "as we understand him", to plagiarize AA ?
2 considers himself Christian [by his definition] ?
3 believes Christ's divinity ?
4. believes all the points of the Nicene or an alternative creed ?
5. is a member of a church other group recognized as Christian ?
6. is American and not atheist, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist ... ?

All of these definitions are in the air. I need not point out the pitfalls.

B Culture :

It should be very clear that the moral imperatives, principles, rules, taboos and so forth for A [New England urban professional and tenth generation Lutheran - moved into one of the renegade conservative divisions] and B [working class Cajun from a long time Catholic family but second generation pentecostal] will be different.

Specifying Christian membership does not guarantee a consistent code; specifying a particular set of life style options does not guarantee Christian.
At one point I was trying to reenergize a post-split church. [This was before it totally died, CPR is not infallible]. I was tasked with working up a statement of faith; based it on the Nicene formula for maximal but orthodox [yes, you know what I wanted to say there] inclusion.

Then I talked to another [who had not quite left yet] - who made me aware that SOME who claim Christian status would find some Nicene clauses objectionable / heretical.

Not sure it can be done. Of course, natural selection means EVENTUALLY the Chrritian Naturist band will be ten plus separate groups, each defined as likeminded people who can get along.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby ezduzit » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:43 am

I`ve read the posts / responses to this strip with much interest , IMO it is "more" Biblical to exclude than to include others without faith in Christ ie those NOT born again / saved.


Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?



2Cor.6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.



Psalms 133:1 <<A Song of degrees of David.>> Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!


Wouldn`t it be great to "belong" to a group of like minded Christians where fellowship is based not on our thoughts of what a Christian is or is not , but faith in the finished work of Christ for us ?.........if Christians could get over the idea of nudity being sinful it might even be called a "church" :biggrin:

Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.


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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:52 am

If orientation were a test of faith...
Would I be banned if I don't find the gatekeeper's wife attractive?

I am not attracted to men nor children, nor barnyard animals.
I do not find most women attractive.

I do find some women attractive.
But if that woman is someone's wife or girlfriend or slightly underage daughter, I keep my opinions (and hands) to myself.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby jasenj1 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:00 am

Could one be formed? Yes.
But I think it would eventually fall victim to the issues Petros raises. The Pentecostals and Cessasionists would both demand the charter be changed to reflect their beliefs and exclude the heretical others.

IMHO, naturists/nudists are a very small minority in the USA, Christians that also call themselves such are a minority of that minority. Why bother to form an organization around that tiny group of people? I much prefer the informal self-organizing situation we have now. There is CNC, and there are various forums and websites where likeminded folks can converse. The bar for "membership" is very low, but there is also very little "value" in being a member. That is, your being a member says very little about what I, as another member, must agree with and endorse.

Could it be done? Certainly. There is nothing stopping anyone from hanging out a sign and declaring themselves such. But I don't see the value in it.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby bn2bnude » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:36 am

ezduzit wrote:I`ve read the posts / responses to this strip with much interest , IMO it is "more" Biblical to exclude than to include others without faith in Christ ie those NOT born again / saved.

Then I might as well leave this forum right now... I am sure we can find many things we disagree with that would make you feel less that happy
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby ezduzit » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:01 am

bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:I`ve read the posts / responses to this strip with much interest , IMO it is "more" Biblical to exclude than to include others without faith in Christ ie those NOT born again / saved.

Then I might as well leave this forum right now... I am sure we can find many things we disagree with that would make you feel less that happy


You are not born again ie saved?
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby Petros » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:56 am

Oh, please, let us not go there again.

Matthew 7:1
Romans 14:4, 13
James 4:11

And elsewhere.

It is NOT, I say, for me or Paul or Epaminondas to say Petros is / Petros ain't saved.

We don't know - God knows and has suggested that in the critical [intentional, guys] day many will be flabbergasted.

Surely this issue is, who that we are comfortable associating with is comfortable associating with us?
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby Bare_Truth » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:28 am

Well, Natman was commenting on how slow it has gotten lately. This strip is looking like at least a partial antidote if the initial surge of posts is an indication.

jasenj1:
I think your comment about a minority of a minority is both obvious, and yet a point needing explicit statement as you have done; because it is a truth that must be borne in mind while addressing a topic like this.

bn2bnude:
There is truth in your comments about exclusion but I think that the concern you raise is not at all central to the issue of a "Christian Naturist Society". While some of us are able to live a largely naturist life style, for the most part, Naturism especially in the use of resorts and other recreational facilities, is in fact, Recreation ! Recreation constitutes a respite from the stresses of life, and to function well it needs to be a safe harbor (to use a metaphor).

Christianity is a way of life. It informs all that we do (at least if it is working right and we are being responsive to God and his holy spirit). But we humans are a frail sort and in need of protection while we recharge before facing the world again. Yes! by all means we must be, and we are commanded to be "in the world" but we must not be of the world [1].

There are more than enough venues where Christians can rub shoulders with sinners in need of Christ and his way of life, but what I am talking about is recreation and retreat from the world to recharge. The gospels are full of examples where Christ sought to withdraw from the crowds and be with his disciples alone, [2] and frail as we are, we need it as well. When we are in a "Christian safe haven" we can let our guard down in some ways and having shed those burdens we can better regenerate. Also when among like minds we can more readly grow in proper directions.
Prov 27: 17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.


Ez:
I believe you are pretty much on the same "wavelength" with me on this one. You certainly saved me from filling this post with a lot of the relevant scriptures. Thanks!

What I am getting at is the concept of scripturally oriented society where the fellowship is such that what sins occur will be only accidental stumblings rather than flagrant rebellion toward the Christian way of life. A society where differences of understandings can be discussed in a "come let us reason together" kind of mindset rather than having to deal with the promotion of blatant rebellion. A place where we can recharge before having to go deal with the world again (as is a task we have been given). It is one of the Satanic tactics that he would prefer that we have no such respite because he wants to wear us out.
Inhis 7th chapter Daniel wrote: 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: ......




[1] John 17:
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[2]
--- E.G. The entirety of the Last Supper

--- In Mark 4: Expounding his teaching in a setting away from the crowds...
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

--- Luke 9: At times of retreat for prayer with his disciples and to query them and discuss with them about the public reactions they were seeing ....
18 ¶And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?

--- John 6: When it was necessary to withdraw from the public reactions that did not serve God's plan....
15 ¶When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
16 And when even was now come, his disciples went down unto the sea,
17 And entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby jochanaan » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:24 am

Bare_Truth wrote:...What I am getting at is the concept of scripturally oriented society where the fellowship is such that what sins occur will be only accidental stumblings rather than flagrant rebellion toward the Christian way of life. A society where differences of understandings can be discussed in a "come let us reason together" kind of mindset rather than having to deal with the promotion of blatant rebellion. A place where we can recharge before having to go deal with the world again (as is a task we have been given)....
And that's what CNC is beginning to do among Christian naturists. I am a part of CNC, and I hope you don't misunderstand us based on our "inclusive" language; we are very Christ-centered and hold to the Apostle's Creed as a standard for belief, yet we feel that we are not yet large and influential enough to turn away anyone who is willing to work with us and respect our ways as Christians. We are not yet a "society" in the sense of a recognized denomination, merely a facilitating organization that holds yearly meetings at various naturist resorts around the US. We are willing to work with AANR because we believe their standards (at least as expressed in their written materials) complement and do not contradict ours.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby bn2bnude » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:18 am

ezduzit wrote:You are not born again ie saved?

I don't know if I fit YOUR definition.... The more I learn about scripture the less I know what that means.

Did I pray a prayer once? Yes... I don't think that makes you born again or saved, however. It may be just a start but I've seen quite a few "still-born" people as a result.

Salvation is not a one time event. It is a process. The Bible uses past, present and future tenses when talking about salvation. I was saved, I am being saved, I will be saved.

Additionally, I suspect by YOUR definition, I have a very different take on "Working out your salvation".

I hold to the Apostles Creed.

I love being at church with my Catholic friends as well as my Lutheran friends and my Methodist friends and my evangelical friends. I dislike being at church with my fundamentalist family, even though I still have friends there. I haven't attended a church regularly for several years because God asked me not to so I could get to know HIM rather than the CHURCH. I attend a weekly Bible study and am in discipling relationships with others.

I Honor scripture by not taking it out of context like was done above.


You tell me.
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Re: Could a "Christian Naturist Society" be formed

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:52 am

It is one thing for AANR to be officially oblivious to sexual orientation and another to claim that AANR gives its blessing to homosexual acts. Nor does this imply that AANR will force member clubs to give their blessing to homosexual acts.
In other words, CNC can and should be AANR members in good conscience. It certainly is a form of outreach to the unsaved nudist community.
At my favorite naturist venue, they simply advise visitors that your good behavior is your only basis for admission and your bad behavior is your only ticket to a hasty exit with a ban from our club and notice posted to all other AANR clubs of your ban from our club.

There are some clubs that only allow married heterosexual couples to visit or join.
There are other clubs with more lenient policies that allow both hetero-couples or unmarried folks with an opposite sex guest, who could be a platonic friend or family member. Some of these folks might not be straight.
And some clubs allow a certain number of unescorted single or unmarried folks with endless variations on that theme. (like going stag to a dance in high school)
I guess some homosexuals are "obvious" in their mannerisms or if they bring a person that they self-identify as a partner. Can you ban someone just because he seems to talk or act prissy or effeminate ? Or does he have to admit that he is not attracted to women or admit that he actually carries out sexual acts with men?

I know a Baptist church that was very conservative on the fundamentals, but had a fairly large number of "gay guys" coming as seekers. They were lovingly told that homosexual acts are forbidden by scripture, but that salvation was available to all who repent of this sin and any other sin for that matter. At first it was disturbing to see so many "obvious" men there, but if any of them got saved, and I trust that some did (and abandon sexual activity), it was a true work of the Holy Spirit. The pastor focused on the basics, did not sidestep the "gay" issue, but it was only a small part of his overall gospel message.
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