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Petros wrote:...The Jesus preached to me - in gospels, epistles, prophecies, commentaries, sermons, communiques from the Spirit - does not require any particular stance on the Godhead. He is content with Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God and My Lord and my God, and is in no way bothered by Saul's Who art thou, Lord?
Otherwise - why did he not give us a closely reasoned account of the Trinity?
jochanaan wrote:Perhaps the difference is not in what we say about God, but in how we say it, and how we prescribe what we say. To speculate about the nature of God is human and admirable--as long as we admit, finally, that He is above our this-life understanding. Even to say that "I believe such-and so, and perhaps everybody should believe such-and so" about God is not a bad thing; it shows that we have thought and continue to think about God.
jochanaan wrote:But to say that "unless you believe such-and so, you are not saved" is to intrude in a private area that is between others and God. In other words, your personal beliefs about God are none of my business.
jochanaan wrote:For example, I have thought often about whether calling God "He" limits His nature. Based on Genesis 1:27 and a few other passages, I have concluded that the God of the Bible is indeed both masculine and feminine. Sometimes (not so much here, but elsewhere in cyberspace) you may see me typing "S/He" as an expression of this personal belief. I also tend to think that believing this about God will give believers a more compassionate mindset, especially towards women, and thus I feel that to embrace this belief is desirable. But--and this is where I draw the line--I will never say that if you do not believe this you are not saved.
jochanaan wrote:Actually, the Bible gives only one indication about whether a person is living in the Holy Spirit: "Ye shall know them by their fruit." (Matthew 7:16)
Petros wrote:... I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted. Dost thou understand, Child? I said, Lord, though knowest how much I understand. But I said also (for the truth constrained me), Yet I have been seeking Tash all my days. Beloved, said the Glorious One, unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek.”
nakedpreacher wrote:My comments were only in reference to deciding by human standards who is saved. I do believe the oneness doctrine to be untrue and even heretical. I believe that Mormonism is a false faith in which Works are substituted for Grace (the similarities to what Paul describes in Galatians is striking), and yet I have a Mormon friend whom, after many long conversations regarding Grace and salvation, I believe to be saved. This is an example of what I was referring to. Because someone belongs to a certain church, even a heretical one, we can not say with certainty if that person is saved or not. We judge by outward appearance and always in our own favor, but God does not judge as we do, he judges justly and with Mercy, in our favor. I try to never limit Gods grace. I have many views on many things which I believe to be true, and yet I may be incorrect on nearly any one of them. Is this incorrectness enough to damn me, I don't think so because I earnestly seek to follow Christ. I believe that God's grace covers our honest misconceptions, even when those misconceptions involve the nature of Christ himself. Should we knowingly follow a false doctrine and depend upon grace to save us, by no means; but if we earnestly desire to follow, but are incorrect on the details of how Father, Son and Holy Spirit are related to one another (a doctrine which I know no one who Comprehends, but only Apprehends) I think that this person is covered by grace. This does not in any way reduce to Centrality of Christ, but makes his grace even greater. Just my opinion, God does not ask my advice on whom he should save.
Naked Preacher
I have always loved that passage, a great word picture of God's grace as embodied in Aslan--surely as noble an avatar of God's Son as was ever committed to paper.Petros wrote:C S Lewis is not - by my standards - in the running for the best author of all time, nor is he close to the ultimate theologian. Yet he said some stuff quite well, and said some quite good stuff, and I have found much food for thought. This from The Last Battle: the speaker is a seeker, a young member of the group constructed to represent the pagan world and designed with the Moors in mind:
“Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honour) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him. But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, Son, thou art welcome. But I said, Alas Lord, I am no son of thine but the servant of Tash. He answered, Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me. Then by reasons of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one? The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted. Dost thou understand, Child? I said, Lord, though knowest how much I understand. But I said also (for the truth constrained me), Yet I have been seeking Tash all my days. Beloved, said the Glorious One, unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek.”
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