What is your denominational background?

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Postby onrdoc » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:45 pm

jochanaan wrote:I am a Seventh Day Baptist. "Seventh Day" means we worship on Saturday, which we are convinced is the Biblical Sabbath, rather than Sunday. Otherwise, our beliefs are very similar to other Baptists': we believe in God, accept Jesus as His Son and the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Godhead; consider the Bible authoritative, indeed the final authority for Christian faith and practices; and practice believers' baptism.


Joch, I just caught this post when you linked it in another part of the village. I have a question for you.

Recently, I had a conversation with a Seventh-Day Adventist pastor who stated, without batting an eye, that his tradition believes that the Mark of the Beast in Revelation is, in fact, Sunday observance.

My response to him (as a Presbyterian!) was to say, "I guess I'm in trouble, eh?"

I know there must be numerous differences between the SDAs and the SDBs, but can you comment on this concept from your perspective as an SDB?

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Postby jochanaan » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:27 am

onrdoc wrote:...Recently, I had a conversation with a Seventh-Day Adventist pastor who stated, without batting an eye, that his tradition believes that the Mark of the Beast in Revelation is, in fact, Sunday observance.

My response to him (as a Presbyterian!) was to say, "I guess I'm in trouble, eh?"

I know there must be numerous differences between the SDAs and the SDBs, but can you comment on this concept from your perspective as an SDB?

onrdoc

There's no Biblical evidence for that SDA pastor's claim. Probably the only Seventh Day Baptists you'd find who believed it would be former Adventists--and they'd be just as likely to reject many of the things the Adventists believed about prophecy. But many Adventists probably would think you were "in trouble."

Really, the only similarities between us and the SDAs are Jesus and the Sabbath. They're a much more authoritarian group and believe things about the prophecies that SDBs mostly find strange and unBiblical. Most particularly, we have never believed that we are "the Church remnant" and freely accept non-SDBs as brothers in Christ.

In recent years many individual Adventists have opened up to a more Biblical, grace-based theology and practices, but from what I hear, leaders at the denominational level have not followed suit. (If there are any Adventists here, perhaps you can update us...?)
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Postby onrdoc » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:31 am

jochanaan wrote:There's no Biblical evidence for that SDA pastor's claim. Probably the only Seventh Day Baptists you'd find who believed it would be former Adventists--and they'd be just as likely to reject many of the things the Adventists believed about prophecy. But many Adventists probably would think you were "in trouble."

Really, the only similarities between us and the SDAs are Jesus and the Sabbath. They're a much more authoritarian group and believe things about the prophecies that SDBs mostly find strange and unBiblical. Most particularly, we have never believed that we are "the Church remnant" and freely accept non-SDBs as brothers in Christ.

In recent years many individual Adventists have opened up to a more Biblical, grace-based theology and practices, but from what I hear, leaders at the denominational level have not followed suit. (If there are any Adventists here, perhaps you can update us...?)


I think you're right, Joch. I was invited to speak at an SDA church by its pastor, but his higher-ups refused to allow me to stand in their pulpit. So to get around it, he interviewed me - thus he controlled the agenda (important to his superiors) but I got a forum. Still, I was a bit bothered by the notion that my Sunday observance was going to put me in such trouble! :roll:

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Postby jochanaan » Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:51 pm

Well, we look at things a little differently, as I said. For most of us SDBs, seventh-day Sabbath observance is like the other things we do as Christians: not a matter of salvation--that's through grace by faith, as Paul details--but of obedience.

I think somewhere in the Studies in Theology is a strip I started about the Sabbath...
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Postby LivingFree » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:52 am

jochanaan wrote:I think somewhere in the Studies in Theology is a strip I started about the Sabbath...


I wonder if these last few posts should have gone there, too?
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Postby jochanaan » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:49 pm

LivingFree wrote:
jochanaan wrote:I think somewhere in the Studies in Theology is a strip I started about the Sabbath...


I wonder if these last few posts should have gone there, too?

Well, they couldn't have, since the strip didn't exist. :oops: But it does now :) , so if a moderator wants to move them, I wouldn't object.
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No denomination now

Postby mfsimbs » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:37 pm

I was raised in a Roman Catholic home. Not a whole lot that went on in church when I grew up made much sense. One of things that confused me the most was all the reverence that Mary got. Also, it struck me as odd that only the priest had the ability to understand Scripture. I'll admit, I never tested that thought process as a youngster. Now we are non-denominational. When someone can show me in Scripture what denomination Christ was I'll become a member of that denomination in an instant. Continue having the awesome, blessed natural day that you've already begun.

Naturally,

Sean
Find me as I was born and as God intended at numerous CAFN events.
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Re: No denomination now

Postby jochanaan » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:27 pm

mfsimbs wrote:...When someone can show me in Scripture what denomination Christ was I'll become a member of that denomination in an instant.

As far as I can determine from the New Testament, He wasn't. 8)
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Re: No denomination now

Postby LivingFree » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:05 pm

mfsimbs wrote:When someone can show me in Scripture what denomination Christ was I'll become a member of that denomination in an instant.


Well, actually, in Matt. 16:18 Jesus said, "upon this rock I will build my church," and in so doing he founded THE denomination. All human organizations that spun off are human institutions, some of them very helpful, others dreadful. Notice that Jesus never wrote a church constitution or set up an organizational structure (although he did say that the greatest one was the one that served the others). He gave us principles to live by, like the Sermon on the Mount, and said in John 10 that there was one fold and one shepherd. I am a part of that worldwide fold, and Jesus is my shepherd, and during my lifetime I have participated in a variety of human organizations, for the purposes of working together with others to propagate the gospel. Which one really doesn't matter, because all are flawed by human errors. It's just amazing that God can use us, in spite of ourselves. :roll:
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Re: No denomination now

Postby LivingFree » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:05 pm

LivingFree wrote:
mfsimbs wrote:When someone can show me in Scripture what denomination Christ was I'll become a member of that denomination in an instant.


Well, actually, in Matt. 16:18 Jesus said, "upon this rock I will build my church," and in so doing he founded THE "denomination." All human organizations that spun off are human institutions, some of them very helpful, others dreadful. Notice that Jesus never wrote a church constitution or set up an organizational structure (although he did say that the greatest one was the one that served the others). He gave us principles to live by, like the Sermon on the Mount, and said in John 10 that there was one fold and one shepherd. I am a part of that worldwide fold, and Jesus is my shepherd, and during my lifetime I have participated in a variety of human organizations, for the purposes of working together with others to propagate the gospel. Which one really doesn't matter, because all are flawed by human errors. It's just amazing that God can use us, in spite of ourselves. :roll:
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Re: No denomination now

Postby onrdoc » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:35 am

mfsimbs wrote:When someone can show me in Scripture what denomination Christ was I'll become a member of that denomination in an instant.


Last time I checked, Jesus was Jewish... :wink:

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Postby Strandloper » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:05 pm

Hi, Onrdoc –
exactly right: Jesus was a Jew.
But I am minded of the story told of an Irish Catholic priest who said:
“It is true, the Lord was born a Jew. But praise the Lord, he converted.” (In the old priest’s eyes, the Lord had become a Roman Catholic – Vatican I style.)
The truth is: He was born a Jew. He lived as a Jew. He preached the Good News to the Jews first. He died a Jew – and everyone could see that, because He was crucified naked, and all could see that He was circumcised.
But He also gave the commandment that the Good News should be preached “in Jerusalem, in Judæa and Samaria, and in all the world”.
That could surely not mean “to Jews only”.
It was to Peter that the vision was given of clean and unclean animals, in which the Lord told him that there was no longer a distinction between them, as a result of which he baptised a Roman family.
And it was Paul who took the Good News to Asia Minor, Macedonia and Greece, preaching first in the synagogues, but after he was rejected by the Pharisees, preaching to any who would come, and afterward also insisting that circumcision was not necessary for converts. (But remember that he also circumcised Timothy.)
There was talk of a split in the Church over the circumcision controversy, but after Paul had met the Apostles in Jerusalem, unity prevailed.
Divisions came much later.
Yet unity was both a commandment and a prayer of Christ.
So today we are required to strive for unity, because the Church is so divided.
Congregations and groupings of congregations that claim not to belong to a denomination have in fact made a denomination of their own.
We need to bring the lost sheep together, not divide the flock still further.
Shalom,
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Postby natman » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:59 pm

This goes counter to the church I am currently attending and according to what I understand, to the denomination I came to know Jesus as Saviour in over thirty years ago. However, unless I am totally reading scripture incorrectly, all Christians are Jews, either genetically or by adoption, as in "grafting into the root" spoken of in Romans 11.

Before Jesus birth, the Jews that were knowlegable of the scriptures and observant to the prophesies looked forward to their coming Messiah, and those in the first century recognized Him from the time of His conception. They became the first "Christians", which was really a subset of the Jewish nation. I believe that this is the "remant" spoken of over and over again in scripture and particularly in Isaiah and Romans, those that believed and trusted in the Lord. The rest of the Jews rejected Jesus as Christ, becoming those that were "cut off".

If there is to be a single denomination, I would think it would be called something like "The True Jews" , "The Remnant", "God's Chosen" or simply "Believers". They have been around since Able, or even possibly Adam.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Postby Strandloper » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:13 am

Hi, Nathan –
while it is true that we Gentile believers have been grafted into God’s family, we have not become Jews.
Leaving aside the argument that we are largely not descendants of Abraham, there is the fact that by and large we do not follow Jewish customs.
The Jews remain the Jews, and remain the Chosen People. Those among them who accept Jesus as the Messiah become fulfilled in their Jewishness. Those who do not will suffer the fate foretold of them.
I do not see the need at this stage to devise a name for the future reunited Church. In all probability it will only be reunified under Christ Himself, and we will follow His lead in all things.
Shalom,
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Postby jochanaan » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:32 pm

Strandloper wrote:...I do not see the need at this stage to devise a name for the future reunited Church...

Nor do I. Our Lord will probably call us merely "Beloved" or some such. :D
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