Nudity and Children

[Desert Hiker]

To a lot of people, nudity and children are about as compatible as oil and water--they just can't be mixed together without making a mess of things. I certainly can understand why some folks would naturally feel this way, especially given most people's perception of nudity--that is; nudity=sex. As good parents, we naturally want to protect our children from anything that would increase the risk of abuse, or danger of any kind. So, while many people will not bat an eye to learn that someone they know is a card carrying member of a nudist club, they are ready to call the cops when they learn that whole families are in attendance--including kids of all ages. It seems it is "okay" for us adults to frolic in the altogether, as long as we "leave the kids at home, with the sitter".

As strange as it may seem, statistics show us that the kids are actually in greater danger of being abused by the sitter, than at any nudist venue, or in most homes where nudity is treated as normal, and natural. Dr. Lee Salk, who's work with families and children is legendary, has stated as much in his own publications that pertain to this subject. Several other studies, and statistics also lend their support to this. So, it would appear that the "knee jerk" reaction to ban nudity in front of the children is not the answer we might have thought it to be. This is not to say that ALL nudity is good, obviously it is not. Pornography, and sexually explicit behavior is certainly not acceptable for children--that is something we all can agree upon. On the other hand, wholesome, non-sexualized nudity, like that found at most naturist clubs, and as practiced by naturist families has been found to be of great benefit overall.

Of course, the debate rages on. Especially now, with the public's eyes being opened to the rampant abuse of children prevalent in places that were previously thought of as "safe". It is good that we are more aware of the possibility of abuse in ALL places where kids are present--especially our churches, and schools. We should not adapt a cavalier attitude towards abuse, and bury our heads in the sand--and live on the "banks of denial". We must remain vigilant in catching those predators in our midst, and protect our children from harm. However, let us not rush to judgment, and criminalize the innocent. Simple, wholesome, and natural nudity has its place in our lives.

Throughout human history, and in cultures around the world, when nudity was "outlawed" it resulted in an exponential increase in sexual and violent crimes--the correlation is unmistakable. I am not saying that naturism, or nudism is a panacea--a "cure all" for all that ails society. A world where nudity was more normal would still have many problems--their would still be "evil amongst us". None the less, I do contend that many of our societal, and behavior problems would be greatly reduced.

In this forum we will explore all the pluses and minuses, problems, and delicate matters pertaining to parenting children in a way of life that includes wholesome naturism. All comments, observations, and helpful advice in dealing with our children are welcome here.

[MtnDewNudist]

I used to work in Law Enforcement and I can say that in my experience and observation kids abused were almost never nude when the perpetrator identified them as potential victims. It is almost unheard of to find kids targeted due to being seen nude. In almost all cases the predator identified and selected their victim in a "normal" clothed setting. From my experience in working with the criminal element I would say that it would be a lot more obvious to identify and isolate predatory child abusers when folks are nude than clothed.

Now I am also going to (for arguments sake) pick on something you mentioned, I hope I don't totally derail your discussion. You stated something about kids should never view adults involved in sexual acts. In my studies of naturism (prior to accepting naturism) I studied history and considered behaviors and human experience in history when dealing with nudity. While there is virtually no actual documented statements to this effect, but common sense indicates it would be true, I dare say that in past history considering that many homes particularly of the poorer classes were extremely small and often only one room which often included large families and even multi-generational families that nudity was extremely common amongst family members. Also I suspect that there was often little if anything separating parents from the kids even when the parents were involved in intimate relations. Common sense says that the kids or other family members would at least have heard the parents in the next bed (or often in the same bed) if not actually observe the experience. While I don't advocate parents have intercourse with their kids present I do wonder just how much of an issue it would actually be. Interestingly a study that I often use to show that nudity is not an issue and is actually beneficial does make the step further and says that occasional "Primal scenes" are not harmful either. (http://www.taasa.org/library/pdfs/TAASALibrary52.pdf) While I have focused only on the nudity part I have seen where others have taken issue with the sexuality part.

Thus if in an open family would it be considered bad if your kids happened to walk in on you while engaged in an intimate relationship with your spouse?

[ezduzit]

I have no problem with "family nudity" but certain acts (intimate) between a husband and wife ought to be private .
What triggers a person to become a pedophile ? Perhaps an early (childhood) exposure to porn ? What is the difference between watching porn and watching your parents have sex? I realize seeing your parents in an intimate moment is not porn per se but the interest in the "unknown" might be enough to spark the imagination leading to a wrong path in life
Ez

[bn2bnude]

I have no problem with "family nudity" but certain acts (intimate) between a husband and wife ought to be private .

I can't say I disagree with you. That is what is practiced in my home as well.

I wonder though, how cultural that is. And, if it is a cultural attitude, how healthy is it? I have a friend who practices a "Family Bed" at home for instance. I don't know any more details than that but I would suspect that for much of history, this may be closer to how families worked.

What triggers a person to become a pedophile ? Perhaps an early (childhood) exposure to porn ? What is the difference between watching porn and watching your parents have sex? I realize seeing your parents in an intimate moment is not porn per se but the interest in the "unknown" might be enough to spark the imagination leading to a wrong path in life
Ez

I've heard some speculation that it may be due to sexual abuse as a child.

[JimShedd112]

I have no facts and can cite no studies to back me up but I suspect in "days of old" parents either were intimate at times when they were alone or in the event children were rousted from sleep by the sounds/acts of the parents' intimacy they probably received reassuring words, most likely from the mother, cooing softly to them, reassuring them everything was alright and to go back to sleep before resuming their lovemaking.

I think in our modern day sexual intimacy is normally practiced in privacy but feel if the children should see their parents engaged in sex acts it would be much less frightening for the children if the parents would simply stop their actions, reassure the children everything is okay, and suggest they go elsewhere until the parents are done. Afterward, the parents could/should then explain to the children what they observed was an act of love between mommy and daddy.

Children should never be made to feel they or their parents have done anything wrong when they observe them or others engaged in normal sexual acts. However, they should be taught to be respectful and quietly withdraw until an appropriate time.

Jim

[Jon-Marc]

I don't know how I missed this in June, and the first reply was 5 months later. Anyway, my first wife grew up in a family with a sexually abusive step-dad. The children also witnessed sexual acts being done on the sofa, which is probably why they all grew up with perverted ideas about sex.

For one thing, I found that my wife thought that sex and love were one and the same. She told me, "If you loved me, you would have sex with me whenever I want it." The problem with that thinking is that she could not be satisfied by any one man. She had an insatiable sexual appetite that couldn't be satisfied. To her, if you loved her, you had sex with her whenever she wanted it (regardless of whether you wanted it or not), and if you had sex with her, it was because you loved her. She was raped by her step-dad more than once as he said, "This is how I show my love for you."

No, I don't think that the participants should continue in their sex act as the children watch, but the parents shouldn't yell at the kids, "What the h--l are you doing in here? Get the h--l out of here!" Hiding certain body parts as they scream at the kids will only cause them to wonder what the mystery is all about and give them perverted ideas.

[jochanaan]

We tend to think that "the ways things are done" in our place and time are absolutely the way they should be. But is this true? As with nakedness, is there a direct correlation between hiding the act of sex and the increase in addiction to pornography and aberrant sexual fetishes? It's known that in Victorian London, there was a huge sexual-fetish underground; I have also read hints that the things English men did with their wives then--well, let's just say they were not loving, naturally procreative activity...

[Larryk1052]

I've visited old frontier and colonial towns and the homes those folks lived in. There wasn't much privacy if any. Of course kids usually sleep soundly and mom and dad would have their time, but I can't believe that the kids didn't see or hear things.


The problem is hiding human nudity and sexuallity to the point that it is considered dirty, adults only. This simply leads to a curiosity that can only be satisfied in unhealthy ways such as porn and non-marital sex.



There needs to be openness about nudity and sex so kids learn what proper from loving parents.

[Bobby]

Isn't allowing the children to witness their parents engaging in sex a replacement for pornography or another form thereof?

[jochanaan]

Not necessarily, Bobby. It may be merely satisfying their curiosity; and once that's done, they may themselves choose to stay away from Mommy and Daddy's room...

Perhaps I should speak a little more about my views. Natural curiosity about bodies and how they work is not lust in the Biblical sense; neither is appreciation of beauty, nor desire for friendship or even touch. Lust in Bible terms is an unwholesome desire to possess or destroy something that does not belong to us; and as someone said, that's covered in the Ten Commandments and certainly in the Two Great Commandments as defined by Jesus our Lord.

Nor does natural lovemaking have anything to do with pornography. As we understand it today, pornography tends to degrade its subjects, producers and viewers, while natural lovemaking between a husband and a wife, at best, is life-affirming and a part of God's order. Nor have I found any prohibition in the Bible against letting others witness such--and I've looked.

Yet, once children's curiosity is satisfied, it is probably not a good thing for parents to deliberately let them see the more "intimate" aspects of lovemaking.

(All this assumes children who grow up with their birth parents. In "blended" families, there are often issues...)

[bn2bnude]

I grew up on a farm and saw animals having sex as well as births at an early age. I believe I witnessed the first animal births at 4 or 5 and a couple of years older when I saw animals breeding.

With so much of American children growing up in the city, you don't get that early, non-sexual introduction to sex.

A century ago, America was much more rural and, as a result, many more of the children of the day would have that same introduction.

[DaveT]

I grew up with animals, kind of always knew how it worked, but I never paid any special attention till I started puberty and we had goats. I think the safe way for children to learn about sex is from the animals. They learn how sex and reproduction works without relating it to themselves until their mental faculties mature and they naturally start thinking about such things. By then their parents need to have taught them self discipline and they will keep themselves from going in wrong directions with it. (too many parents fall down on the job)

Try to look at nudity through a child's perspective. It is nothing to them, it was nothing to me as a child until I was taught that it should be something. So whether the adults are nude or not is irrelevant as far as they are concerned. Now when it comes to their mental training, getting them accustomed to nude people in common life as they grow up (non sexual) we find to be extremely beneficial. It's the lack of nudity in life that makes pornography attractive to the young men. If nude men and women were everywhere a daily common sight from their infancy, no connection to lust or sex, what attraction would there be to the porn? None I think. Or at least so little it would be a take it or lave it kind of attitude. Their minds would be well conditioned against the attraction. Who's attracted unduly to such common things as the corner post of the front porch. You pass it several times a day without even thinking about it. It's the excess attraction to porn that drives sex crimes quite often. So the crimes of the men of wickedness are possibly partially due to the lack of their parents being nude in the home every day. Many times combined with sexual abuse as children as well. Nudity with purity keeps children clean minded, lack of nudity with abuse makes sex criminals. Not always but as a trend.

[natman]

Dave,

I agree with you 100%.

If you have been raised in a farming environment, where animals are regularly bred or allowed to breed, you have an advantage over most people who are raised in the burbs and suburbs.

I think that in those cases, being raised in families where the nude human body is seen regularly and where open and honest discussions about human sexuality are allowed can go a long way in preventing children from experimenting with sex and getting caught up in pornography. When we know what REAL human bodies look like, it is easy and often offensive to see how they are portrayed in porn as a lie.