Gospel Presentation

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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby MoNatureMan » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:30 pm

bn2bnude
I definitely have bias' against some of the "alter calls" I've been seated in. Where is the line between manipulation and not?


You are right. If a person 'gives their life to Christ' by manipulation it is not real. Sometimes, someone responding to an alter call, is nothing but a feather in the cap of the minister.
However I have seen many that were real.
What makes it confusing and sometimes really wrong is we are dealing with people.
I have also seen people hound someone into 'excepting Christ'. This can produce a rebellion against Christ or an unreal conversion.

I don't understand all of this.
I am sure you have heard of A A Allen. He was a drunken womanizing preacher. But somehow God used him to bring people to Christ.
I have heard that God can use many different vessels.

I guess we will understand all of this on the other side.

In Him
Ron :cross:
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby ezduzit » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:02 am

bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:
MoNatureMan wrote:I hear what is being said but the 'alter- call'. But it has been used to awaken many from a life of sin. Should we just get rid of it because some don't like it? I think not.
I have been trained in a program called 'Evangelism Explosion' by D James Kennedy. It has been used to awaken many from a life going to hell.

I am aware that some are offended by an 'alter-call' or a program like 'EE' but Scripture talks of the Gospel being an offense.

What I am saying is we need to use these tools and and then continue to disciple,

In Him
Ron :cross:


Personally I have no problem with an altar call if it is not used to manipulate people.
It does and will bring folks to a decision of the heart if used properly.
Ez


I definitely have bias' against some of the "alter calls" I've been seated in. Where is the line between manipulation and not?


I`ve been in services where you were told / asked to bring someone to the altar . Also I have had to "endure" long drawn out altar calls ie it was apparent that no one was under conviction and was planning to "get right".
Ez


Where Did It Come From?


"What is often shocking to many who use the modern invitation system is that the altar call is just that modern. The practice, although widespread, is a very new phenomenon in the Christian church. For nearly nineteen centuries no one had ever heard of the practice. Such well known evangelists as George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, and even John Wesley had never even heard of such a custom. And Charles Spurgeon, that passionate winner of souls par excellence, although well acquainted with the practice, firmly refused to adopt it and even criticized it severely.
Ironically, "the old fashioned altar call" was unheard of until the nineteenth century.
It first came into being by the influence of Charles Finney, the pioneer of modern evangelistic methods. In Finney's crusades (c. 1830) seats at the front were reserved for those who, after the sermon, would respond to the challenge to come to the Lord's side. Those who were thus "anxious" for their souls were invited to walk forward to the "anxious seat" where counsel and prayer would be given them."

Source..............

http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/e ... /altar.htm
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Re: Gospel Presentation..altar call

Postby ezduzit » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:17 am

Found some more info / thoughts about the modern day practice of the altar call
Ez

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pa ... l.html?p=1
ezduzit
 

Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby bn2bnude » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:51 am

ezduzit wrote:
I`ve been in services where you were told / asked to bring someone to the altar . Also I have had to "endure" long drawn out altar calls ie it was apparent that no one was under conviction and was planning to "get right".
Ez


Where Did It Come From?


"What is often shocking to many who use the modern invitation system is that the altar call is just that modern. The practice, although widespread, is a very new phenomenon in the Christian church. For nearly nineteen centuries no one had ever heard of the practice. Such well known evangelists as George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, and even John Wesley had never even heard of such a custom. And Charles Spurgeon, that passionate winner of souls par excellence, although well acquainted with the practice, firmly refused to adopt it and even criticized it severely.
Ironically, "the old fashioned altar call" was unheard of until the nineteenth century.
It first came into being by the influence of Charles Finney, the pioneer of modern evangelistic methods. In Finney's crusades (c. 1830) seats at the front were reserved for those who, after the sermon, would respond to the challenge to come to the Lord's side. Those who were thus "anxious" for their souls were invited to walk forward to the "anxious seat" where counsel and prayer would be given them."

Source..............

http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/e ... /altar.htm


This is good information, especially for those that live and die with the alter call (I grew up in a church that went through that phase when I was in High School). I actually already knew some of this, although not all the particulars. As far as I had known, the alter call dated back to the 1850's "Frontier Gospel" so this dates it a little earlier.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Gospel Presentation..altar call

Postby bn2bnude » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:55 am

ezduzit wrote:Found some more info / thoughts about the modern day practice of the altar call
Ez

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pa ... l.html?p=1


Again, more good information.

A few years ago, I went to what would be classified a "mega-church" that did alter calls a couple times a year. What they did do regularly was, however, an invitation for anyone interested to come down front after the service to talk to the pastor and prayer team. I remember one weekend they baptized 75 people after a sermon on what baptism was, wasn't and what it signified. The really cool thing is they were baptizing them in street clothes.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby Petros » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:58 pm

How was thast for you? Herself and I would be seriously stressed out at even a mini mega church. Visited the Tortonto thing one time to check out what was going on and THAT was hard - very high pressure.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby Ramblinman » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:23 pm

I do not object to an altar call provided that it is seen as only a beginning and nothing more.
There must be discipleship training before confirmation.
Too many churches make a sacrament out of shaking the preacher's hand in a moment of fervor following a stirring sermon and 12 verses of "Just As I Am".
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby MoNatureMan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:08 am

I also know of some of the 'mega church' pastors that went overseas for a 'revival' (vacation!?).
In India for example - they have many gods. When you ask them to come to Christ they will come to the alter to add Him to their list of gods. Coming back to the states and saying that 5000 people accepted Christ is deception.

Pardon me but winning the lost is not just a vacation like some have made it and it isn't about adding Jesus to a list of accepted gods.

The good news needs to be proclaimed that Jesus lived and died for all of us, and He is the only way of salvation and to eternal life.

In Him
Ron
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby bn2bnude » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:58 pm

I thought of this strip while listening to this podcast....

Some of what he says is the Gospel is the story of Jesus and we've made the Gospel about "personal salvation".
It's an interesting podcast for me and better explains some of the reservations I had with the original posts.

EZ.... I'd love to hear what you have to say about the podcast after listening.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby ezduzit » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:43 pm

bn2bnude wrote:I thought of this strip while listening to this podcast....

Some of what he says is the Gospel is the story of Jesus and we've made the Gospel about "personal salvation".
It's an interesting podcast for me and better explains some of the reservations I had with the original posts.

EZ.... I'd love to hear what you have to say about the podcast after listening.


In a nutshell he has said very much the same thing that I have..................

# 1.... the Gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Cor.15:1-4
It is personal very personal (Gal.2:20 ) "who loved me , and gave himself for me"
#2..... Easy" prayerism " is another gospel ie bloodless and devoid of repentance thus producing Christian "wannabies" who have a form of Godliness but no power or changed life.
Many of the evangelists he mentioned do and did use the altar call for a "decision" but fail to inform those coming forward that to be born again produces a new person ie repentance has been shoved aside to emphasize love and a short prayer.
Sad, Sad ! makes it extremely difficult to bring a "religious but lost" person to Christ.
Ez
ezduzit
 

Re: Gospel Presentation

Postby bn2bnude » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:30 pm

ezduzit wrote:
bn2bnude wrote:I thought of this strip while listening to this podcast....

Some of what he says is the Gospel is the story of Jesus and we've made the Gospel about "personal salvation".
It's an interesting podcast for me and better explains some of the reservations I had with the original posts.

EZ.... I'd love to hear what you have to say about the podcast after listening.


In a nutshell he has said very much the same thing that I have..................

# 1.... the Gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Cor.15:1-4
It is personal very personal (Gal.2:20 ) "who loved me , and gave himself for me"
#2..... Easy" prayerism " is another gospel ie bloodless and devoid of repentance thus producing Christian "wannabies" who have a form of Godliness but no power or changed life.
Many of the evangelists he mentioned do and did use the altar call for a "decision" but fail to inform those coming forward that to be born again produces a new person ie repentance has been shoved aside to emphasize love and a short prayer.
Sad, Sad ! makes it extremely difficult to bring a "religious but lost" person to Christ.
Ez


Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to listen and comment.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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