Beliefs

What does Christ teach about the issues of life? Make sure you back up your opinions with scripture, and always be courteous and polite in talking with others.<P>Only Permanent and Native Residents may post here.

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Re: Beliefs

Postby ezduzit » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:59 am

A few thoughts concerning our strip............
I believe the restriction regarding having "one wife" might be because the practice of having more than one wife was wide spread and probably accepted. The instruction in Gen. 2: 24 seems to indicate a single wife , not until Gen.4: 19 do we see polygamy practiced /institued .Lamech seems to have followed in the foot steps of Cain (Gen.4:23)
Having more than one wife caused Solomon much trouble (1 Kings11: 1-9)
Forbidding to marry ?.............................. 1 Tim. 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

IMO a pastor ought to be married ,why? to avoid the appearance of evil and temptation while visiting with the ladies, it safe guards all involved ,and every pastor needs a helpmeet...
Ez

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Re: Beliefs

Postby bn2bnude » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:24 am

ezduzit wrote:IMO a pastor ought to be married ,why? to avoid the appearance of evil and temptation while visiting with the ladies, it safe guards all involved ,and every pastor needs a helpmeet...


At the same time, then, you need to deal with Paul's exhortation for singles not to marry so they can better carry out the ministry (1 Cor 7)
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:27 pm

jasenj1 wrote:I'm not going to jump in too deep here because I think the topic of polygamy is not within the scope of this forum; it's tangentially related to themes naturism brings up, but not directly related.
It need not be directly related to Naturism. Which is why it is in the Christianity and Ethics forum. However as far as not jumping in too deep. I was hoping that indepth examination of any of the examples anyone might submit would be relegated to daughter strips rather than take over this strip. My intent for this strip was only to bring up the various topics and define an initial scope for them. My idea was to open dialogue in places where we differ in our understanding so that we might better appreciate the sources of those differences. So far it seems to be working, mostly I think because we are a largely mature lot, and understand the need to approach potential controversy cautiously and with respect.

jasenj1 wrote:The Church loves orthodoxy. Making sure everyone knows "the rules" and abides by them. There are lots of Scriptures warning about false teachings, not getting ensnared by the world's ways, and such. We tend to gloss over the Scriptures telling us to respect each other, give grace and forgiveness to each other, live at peace with each other, and generally cut each other a lot of slack - as God has cut us a mile of slack through His Son.
That deserves at least one Amen and possibly a Seven Fold Amen.

jasenj1 wrote:IMHO, far better minds than ours have wrestled with these issues for a few thousand years and we still don't have peace within the Body.
A good quality of a mind can be quite an asset, but I think that too often those better minds lacked the openness to humility. So I am not always sure that they arrived at the right answer. I take the pronouncements of those who are touted as better minds as useful to examine but not necessarily adopt straight up. Martin Luther had some insights but he was also very anti-Semitic which I regard as a serious fault.

jochanaan wrote:Regarding worship, the Sabbath is described as a time of "holy convocation" or "sacred assembly". (Leviticus 23:3) Yet I think we sometimes reverse God's reasoning in this. We think that "God commanded it, so He must want it" or some such; yet Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." Our gathering together (on the Sabbath or at other times) is not to give something to God; it's so that we may grow closer to Him and others who follow Him and thus receive help and strength and comfort.
I regard that as very insightful. The church loves to establish form and pomp and rules, much like the Pharisees. In making the Sabbath for man I believe God was giving us a gift suitable for our growth in the directions he lovingly desired us to take.

ezduzit wrote:I believe the restriction regarding having "one wife" might be because the practice of having more than one wife was wide spread and probably accepted. The instruction in Gen. 2: 24 seems to indicate a single wife
I have posted before on the argument of the polyginists who contend that this is a translational problem and that "one wife" is more properly "a wife" and understand it to be not a restriction to just one, but rather an instruction that he must have started married life and have "at least one wife". Perhaps our resident linguist will rise to the bait on this one. But if the polyginy thing is pursued further, it needs its own strip lest it hijack this one.

ezduzit wrote:IMO a pastor ought to be married ,why? to avoid the appearance of evil and temptation while visiting with the ladies, it safe guards all involved ,and every pastor needs a helpmeet...
While I believe it does help to keep a pastor above suspicion, I really think it is much more important that he have first hand experience at married life. And yes, I believe that a pastor does need a wife as an help meet to best fulfil his role, the wrong sort of wife could be a great detriment to his service. As to the matter of your use of the term "appearance of evil" I think that Matthew Neal's understanding of this phrase expressed at: http://thebiblicalnaturist.blogspot.com/ is greatly illuminating and carries the proper understanding of the passage where it occurs and related passages.

ezduzit wrote: to avoid .... temptation while visiting with the ladies ...
And let us not overlook that the temptation may be on the part of the ladies, the presence of his wife would certainly put a damper on that.

bn2bnude wrote:you need to deal with Paul's exhortation for singles not to marry so they can better carry out the ministry (1 Cor 7)
I am not so sure that Paul's comments there were really directed toward local congregational leaders but more at the general membership, and particularly the younger set not yet married and established in life. Almost leaning in the direction of advice to not marry too soon, if at all because of conditions of persecution.

bn2bnude wrote:Here are some Protestant doctrine I think are worth examining as I'm not convinced the narrative of scripture and the doctrine held in churches match up):Penal Substitutionary Atonement (there are at least 10 different views held by churches throughout the ages)
I don't know if I know what that topic is, or at least not under that "theo-jargon terminology", I guess I will have to look that one up.

Thanks, guys (and gals if any are just reading but not posting). So far this strip is working out much as I hoped it would, probing into a variety of topics without rancor or accusations or factionalism.
I never met anyone that I could not learn something from.
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Re: Beliefs

Postby jochanaan » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:14 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:
ezduzit wrote:I believe the restriction regarding having "one wife" might be because the practice of having more than one wife was wide spread and probably accepted. The instruction in Gen. 2: 24 seems to indicate a single wife
I have posted before on the argument of the polyginists who contend that this is a translational problem and that "one wife" is more properly "a wife" and understand it to be not a restriction to just one, but rather an instruction that he must have started married life and have "at least one wife". Perhaps our resident linguist will rise to the bait on this one...
While I'm not exactly the "resident linguist," I took a quick look at the Greek through the Blue Letter Bible. The word for "one" is present in I Timothy 3:3, and does modify the word for "wife."
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Re: Beliefs

Postby ezduzit » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:28 pm

bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:IMO a pastor ought to be married ,why? to avoid the appearance of evil and temptation while visiting with the ladies, it safe guards all involved ,and every pastor needs a helpmeet...


At the same time, then, you need to deal with Paul's exhortation for singles not to marry so they can better carry out the ministry (1 Cor 7)


Is he talking about pastors, bishops? Me thinks not
Ez
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Re: Beliefs

Postby bn2bnude » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:56 pm

ezduzit wrote:
bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:IMO a pastor ought to be married ,why? to avoid the appearance of evil and temptation while visiting with the ladies, it safe guards all involved ,and every pastor needs a helpmeet...


At the same time, then, you need to deal with Paul's exhortation for singles not to marry so they can better carry out the ministry (1 Cor 7)


Is he talking about pastors, bishops? Me thinks not
Ez



I'm not so convinced... Either way actually.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Petros » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:26 am

ezduzit wrote:
bn2bnude wrote:
ezduzit wrote:IMO a pastor ought to be married ,why? to avoid the appearance of evil and temptation while visiting with the ladies, it safe guards all involved ,and every pastor needs a helpmeet...


At the same time, then, you need to deal with Paul's exhortation for singles not to marry so they can better carry out the ministry (1 Cor 7)


Is he talking about pastors, bishops? Me thinks not

Ez




I fail to see any ground for assuming that 1CO 7:32-33 does not apply equally to Petros, the bishop, the patriarch, the prersident, the CEO and Joe Blow.

Note - on being appointed to the faculty, a female colleague in a department that shall be nameless if not blameless was explicitly warned against allowing husband, housekeeping, children from interfering with a singleminded professionalism. How far she succeeded God knows. Her children did not seem neglected.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Beliefs

Postby Petros » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:34 am

There is an interesting question, or set of questions in re 1 Timothy 3:3 which does say clearly "one wife"

Is this a maximum [husband of ONE wife]

a minimum [husband of A wife]

and what about serial monogamy [husband of one wife at a time]

and what about as in Solomon's case porcupines [husband to ONE of his ladies]?

This is not defensive driver lawyer talk here.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Beliefs

Postby bn2bnude » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:25 am

Petros wrote:There is an interesting question, or set of questions in re 1 Timothy 3:3 which does say clearly "one wife"

Is this a maximum [husband of ONE wife]

a minimum [husband of A wife]

and what about serial monogamy [husband of one wife at a time]

and what about as in Solomon's case porcupines [husband to ONE of his ladies]?

This is not defensive driver lawyer talk here.


Yes, but those sorts of things run through my brain as well.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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