What is to become of Christian Naturism.

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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby jjsledge » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:38 am

FYI.

The Texas group is no longer associated with CNC. There has been a CNC at Oak Lake Trails in Oklahoma.

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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby Ramblinman » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:10 am

I was involved in CNC about 10 years ago, helping with online planning meetings and in promoting the event.
It was in Virginia.

For a while some speakers at CNC events were getting "off message" in my opinion and not sticking to what unites us as Christians and naturists.

This appears to have been dealt with and I have reaffirmed my support for what they do. I am quite pleased that Christian naturists are meeting annually in various places in the US. I know that there is an unaffiliated group in the UK that is meeting.

I am not sure how much CNC is Boyd's group. He is certainly the most visible part of the organization and a man with a good heart. I believe that he is assisted by other Christian leaders who are simply not as visible. I am not active in CNC currently so someone else will have to evaluate how CNC is led, one man or a leadership team or something in between.

Allen Parker, the founder of the original CNC meetings, helped organize an actual church on the grounds of his summer home at White Tail Resort in Virginia. Last time I checked, the church is keeping him plenty busy.

About 15 years ago there was a worship group at a nudist campground North Carolina that provided some of the inspiration for CNC, and I think the Christians there gather for Sunday worship in a chapel in the summers.

I do not believe that Boyd and CNC MUST be the nucleus to spearhead a Christian Naturist outreach to the churches.

As things currently stand, individual Christians find us on their own (and other Christian naturists such as Naturist Christians, FLF, Matthew Neal, Paul Bowman, Jeff Bowman, and others).

Should an umbrella group form to help reach the churches of North America, Australia, and the UK? Perhaps even some outreach is needed in continental Europe. Such a group would have to have the self-discipline to steer clear of off-topic doctrines and focus on presenting naturism to the churches.

We all agree that more Christians should be aware of the ideas behind naturism. I am not talking about promoting the idea of visiting nudist resorts. Instead, I am talking about the important truths that have been largely missing from the Churches for centuries. Pastor Jeff Bowman's writings come closest to articulating what I am talking about.
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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby jochanaan » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:32 pm

Boyd is the leader of the nude Bible study I go to here in Denver. I've gone to a CNC event (Missouri, 2007 at Show Me Acres--there's a review somewhere on these forums) and know several of the other CNC folks online. Boyd is hardly a power-hungry man; in fact, he prefers to keep the CNC as a non-hierarchical network rather than "his show." His own site has been up for more than a decade; it was one of the first sites I found when I began to research Christian naturism. 8)

I mentioned CNC merely as an example of a network that has a real-world presence as well as an online one.
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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby jasenj1 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:22 pm

Ah. I joined CNC's forum and I now see that there are a lot more categories & topics. Great.

Soo.... Why CNV and CNC? I see some of the same usernames that I see here, so people are dividing their time between both places. What's the point? Is there a good reason for the administrative time and cost overhead required to run two forums for a community of at best a few dozen(hundred?) people? If someone were to take over the administration of the CNC forum would that allow Boyd (the CNC guy in charge) time to do better things with CNC?

This goes to the question of the topic. Is it "good" for Christian naturism (at least on the web) to be fragmented and splintered? Would combining efforts be more "effective" (however you define "effective")?

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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:26 pm

jjsledge wrote:The Texas group is no longer associated with CNC. .....
Was there an amacable parting ???
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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby Bare_Truth » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:35 pm

jasenj1 wrote:..... Is there a good reason for the administrative time and cost overhead required to run two forums for a community of at best a few dozen(hundred?) people?

------------------------
I think so. There is a different "flavor" to the different sites. For instance Naturist Christians does not allow all manner of commentary and discussion based on an expressed concern for the 501-c3 status of the organization under which it is run. Christian Naturist Villiage does not have that problem and there is just a different "flavor" between the two. I am more comfortable at CNV than elswhere. Fig Leaf Forum is a second preference but that is a very different site But it has its advantages and it is where I have made contacts that have allowed me to set up the few social naturism experiences I have had so far.

jasenj1 wrote:.... Is it "good" for Christian naturism (at least on the web) to be fragmented and splintered? Would combining efforts be more "effective" (however you define "effective")?
I rather think that fragmented and splintered are too harsh and pejorative terms. I see more hope for a confederation or possibly a federation naturist groups rather than unitary. There are different reasons that people are drawn to the various groups. For instance I would choose AANR over TNS any day, because I believe that Naturism must strive to avoid the Nudity = Sex stigma. Because TNS has historical ties to the homosexual movement, and even promotes homosexual issues on its home page,(e.g. a former article praising the "It Gets Better campaign"). Linking the Naturist movement to any sexual identity group, is, I think, wrong headed, (regardless of whatever ones position on homosexuality, polygamy, free love, D&R etc.). At the same time I believe that their sub unit, the Naturist Action Committee (NAC) is a superb idea in the way of legal activism, but it is not enough for me to favor them over AANR, and there is also the matter that TNS is a co-owned private company (see:Nicky Hoffman Lee, on the present TNS home page), and I cannot see my self becoming a member of an organization that is a private company [1], it seems an oxymoron to call it a "society" in such a case, just as I would not care to be a member of a church which is a privately held corporation, etc.. I have less trouble with the AANR structure [2] and governance.

Now those objections are just me, but my point is that there are organizations with like focus but I feel more comfortable with some rather than others, just as I would definitely feel out of place and uncomfortable at a charismatic snake handlers congregation. I also suspect that it would be more effective if politicians were hit from multiple sides when they promote anti-naturist legislation.

[1]References w.r.t. TNS:
http://www.naturistsociety.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Baxandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naturist_Society
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Hoffman_Lee

[2]Although I lack documentation at hand, it is my understanding from what I have read, that voting at AANR is apportioned to resorts based on how many have their AANR membership through each resort. If I am misinformed please provide correction on this matter. But if it is true, then it seems as if someone else owns my vote.
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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby pipermac » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:20 am

I think the various groups...FLF, CNC and CNV serve very different functions. These are my observations:

While FLF has a forum, it is directed and moderated, and has as its primary purpose the discussion of specific Scripture passages. What I get the most out of with FLF is the weekly newsletters. I am a subscriber, and typically read the whole thing, although I am not particularly interested in what "profiles" are new or updated. I have not used it as a means of meeting other Christian naturists. That feature might be more useful to me if people were more than just a "profile number".

CNC seems to be focused on supporting local naturist congregations, where those exist, and planning and conducting their regional gatherings. Lacking the resources to go to a regional gathering, and having no local naturist congregation, I have little interest in actually belonging to CNC.

Our forum is alive and well, and sometimes we have some pretty lively discussions. One problem I see here is that, although we have over 1300 registered users, our actual active membership is perhaps a dozen...the faithful few. I love our discussions, and sincerely wish that we could coax more of our members out of the woodwork. I suspect that one of the reasons we have so many "registered users", but so few active members, is that if a person has joined and come online one time, they are forever in the "system". I appreciate the "faithful few", because you are the heart and soul of this group, but we need more participation, if we are going to do more than just huddle in our respective caves and talk about how we wish things were different. A dozen voices scattered all over the globe doesn't make much of an impression on "the powers that be".

I wish I had more and better ideas...but I am short of good ideas.

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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby Bare_Truth » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:21 am

pipermac, I think your analysis of the various groups is good but I think we differ on some points.

pipermac wrote:....... While FLF has a forum, it is directed and moderated, and has as its primary purpose the discussion of specific Scripture passages.

What I get the most out of with FLF is the weekly newsletters. I am a subscriber, and typically read the whole thing, .........

I am not particularly interested in what "profiles" are new or updated. I have not used it as a means of meeting other Christian naturists. That feature might be more useful to me if people were more than just a "profile number".


---------------------------
What I might Add to your FLF comments:

I would say that the discussion of specific scriptures passages is not a primary purpose but is a well developed tool to help Christian naturists to defend the validity of their position from common attacks. I would call it an effective apologetics tool.

I too read the weekly newsletters they are interesting and entertaining and provide links to matters of interest.

The profiles and their updates are something that I frequently scan. It offers a safe (hence the profile number thing) means for breaking down the isolation that many naturists suffer from and lets us know if there are others nearby with whom we might find the nucleus of a club or casual meet ups.


pipermac wrote:...Our forum is alive and well, and sometimes we have some pretty lively discussions. One problem I see here is that, although we have over 1300 registered users, our actual active membership is perhaps a dozen...the faithful few.


I love our discussions, and sincerely wish that we could coax more of our members out of the woodwork.

I appreciate the "faithful few", because you are the heart and soul of this group, but we need more participation, if we are going to do more than just huddle in our respective caves and talk about how we wish things were different.


-------------------------------
As to the CNV site analysis:

I suppose that any group has members who cover a spectrum of active to inactive. I do see that there have been some members who might have been interesting if they had participated more. I suppose that if we could sort the database by time since last post we might have a better assessment of our true strength and some purge of long since inactive members might have some use, but trimming of "dead wood" does not offer great advantage otherwise.

But if there is one thing about the membership that I do lament, it is our apparent inability to retain women as active posters. The "Only for Women" segment of the board index seems not to have been used since January 2009. I get the impression that having active participation from the women's side of things is a common problem for Naturist websites. I think that Naturist Family Net http://www.naturistfamily.net/ may be doing a better job at this than most. If that is true, perhaps we ought to try to figure out why. I think that we are missing out on a lot by not having involvement and input from women more frequently.

The strength which I think distinguishes CNV is the vitality and depth with which the Christian side of Christianity and Naturism is discussed here, and successful avoidance of sectarian wrangling that has been achieved. I suppose it has something to do with the combination of holding to our common interest in naturism which is widely rejected in Christendom while at the same time being strongly religiously motivated individually. We seem to be a diverse lot religiously who have banded together because so many venues for a religious outlet will not have us openly and freely because we run about without our clothes on.
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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby jochanaan » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:44 pm

The thought of combining two or more of our Christian Naturist groups reminds me of something a minister said at a wedding I was at years ago. He told the story of a couple who were getting married and saying to each other, "We're going to be one, we're going to be one!" Then after the ceremony, they looked at each other and asked, "Which one?" :shock: :lol:

The trouble with combining efforts and organizations is that it necessarily involves creating an overseeing organization, with bosses and managers and all the corporate structure that many of us despise. Sort of like the Department of Homeland Security overseeing all the various intelligence and other agencies it oversees.

So there is strength, as others have said, in our diversity. And there is also strength in the fact that many of us are on more than one site or org.; we can take ideas from one group to another while the groups retain their independence. The multiplicity of sites and organizations only becomes a hindrance when they stop talking to each other--and I see no sign of that happening.
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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby natman » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:43 am

I am currently the administrator for both naturist-christians.org and cnvillage.org. Both of the owners of those sites are looking to move away from them either due to family needs or health. I have offered to take over CNV and may also offer to take over NC site and remove it from the 501-c3 status, which would make it a taxable entity, which is of little concern since the cost of operation closely matches the donations and income from the sales of books etc.

I have thought of possibly combining the sites since they are the most similar, in order to save hosting and administration costs. However there would be considerable overlap and duplication of post topics.

Currently, the biggest differences between the two are the fact that, being under a 501-c3 status, the current owner of the NC site believes that we are not ALLOWED to discuss politics or political candidates regardless of their affect on the naturist movement, nor does are we allowed to get into deep theological discussions as he feels that the PRIMARY focus of the site is to be "naturism" and Christianity is a distant second, whereas the PRIMARY focus of CNV is "Christianity" with naturism as a distant second. The only limitations we have on the CNV site are flaming others and not showing full-frontal nudity in our public avatars so as to not put off those who are seeking to understand Christianity, naturism or both.

I also enjoy FLF. However, it is not nearly as interactive as CNV and NC when it comes to having a discussion as it only comes out once a week (sometimes longer) and it is heavily moderated. However, it is highly informative, particularly when it comes to Biblical content.

As mentioned, CNC has a specific purpose in organizing and bringing Christian naturists together at several gatherings across the country. They need to focus on that important work.
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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby pipermac » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:48 pm

I am also a member of NC, but I rarely log on there. As I recall, I found NC before I found CNV, and once I became a part of CNV, I found CNV to be more suitable to my needs. Maybe NC needs a new helmsman and a new compass heading, to bring the "Christian" into clearer focus. I think our focus is what has kept me coming here, because being a naturist is secondary to knowing God and His word, and that is where I need to focus my attention. It would be interesting to know how much overlap there is in membership. Combining sites might prove to be the most beneficial.

I am naked and unashamed in Christ!

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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby JimShedd112 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:43 pm

OK, Steve, to start it off I'm a member of all three sites mentioned here, Christian Naturist Village obviously, Naturist Christian, and the Fig Leaf Forum. I don't recall which I discovered first.

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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby prairieboy » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:54 pm

pipermac wrote:I am also a member of NC, but I rarely log on there. As I recall, I found NC before I found CNV, and once I became a part of CNV, I found CNV to be more suitable to my needs. Maybe NC needs a new helmsman and a new compass heading, to bring the "Christian" into clearer focus. I think our focus is what has kept me coming here, because being a naturist is secondary to knowing God and His word, and that is where I need to focus my attention. It would be interesting to know how much overlap there is in membership. Combining sites might prove to be the most beneficial.

I am naked and unashamed in Christ!

Steve :cross:


My 2 cents worth. I started out on NC because my interest was mainly in naturism at that time. When/as my spiritual life was renewed my focus changed to CHRISTIAN Naturist Village. I don't post much on either at present, but I check in here on an ongoing basis. I also scan the FLF newsletters, but don't make time for too much more. There was someone new that visited Naturist Legacy and met John Kundert. John told them about Fig Leaf Forum, he got in touch with me, and we met for lunch just before Christmas. So, even within our relatively small numbers there are a diversity of needs without a one size fits all solution.
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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby jasenj1 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:46 am

natman wrote:I have thought of possibly combining the sites since they are the most similar, in order to save hosting and administration costs. However there would be considerable overlap and duplication of post topics.

Maybe it's my mega-church orientation coming out, but this is what I'm talking about. There are overhead costs - time and money - involved with running an organization. The more organizations, the more time is spent doing those overhead duties and not doing the real mission. This is one of the reasons national chains crush mom & pop stores.
As mentioned, CNC has a specific purpose in organizing and bringing Christian naturists together at several gatherings across the country. They need to focus on that important work.

Agreed. And is part of that important work administering and running a discussion forum? Would they and the community be better served to have a sub-forum on another forum site?

I didn't even know NC existed until your post. I took a look at it real quick and it seems to be one of those "you can't see anything until you join" kind of sites. *shrug* I'm not sure I want to stretch myself to yet another site.

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Re: What is to become of Christian Naturism.

Postby vycna » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:35 pm

It is impressive that there are many distinct movements to organize Christian nudists and naturists, I would not have time for looking much into them. One I see, Christian Naturist Fellowship http://cnfellowship.wordpress.com/, interests me, at least I see a member there is minded to be vegetarian, something I wish I would see more.
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