Hutterites

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Hutterites

Postby ezduzit » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:50 am

A picture of genuine Christianity ?
Ez

http://www.hutterites.org/
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Re: Hutterites

Postby bn2bnude » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:15 am

The Hutterites are sect of anabaptist similar to Amish or Mennonite in spiritual belief. Very high emphasis placed on community. There are not many communities in the United States, mostly in the north midwest.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Hutterites

Postby natman » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:39 am

I applaud their willingness to try to live communally (communistically - no personal property, shared resources and bank account). However, apart from a small group in Acts, I do not think that this is the actual Biblical model that God intended, and without considerable shaming or "Banning" of those who slack from their shared duties, is bound to failure.

I am not sure how to interpret their "separation of Church and state" statement. I believe that America's founding fathers intended that government not interfere with the various practices of ("Christian") religion, but that Christianity was to direct and have an affect on government in order that it be moral and acceptable to God, such that He would bless us. And, as properly enacted Christianity should reduce the burden on government, government should encourage rather than discourage participation.
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Re: Hutterites

Postby bn2bnude » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:01 am

natman wrote:I am not sure how to interpret their "separation of Church and state" statement. I believe that America's founding fathers intended that government not interfere with the various practices of ("Christian") religion, but that Christianity was to direct and have an affect on government in order that it be moral and acceptable to God, such that He would bless us. And, as properly enacted Christianity should reduce the burden on government, government should encourage rather than discourage participation.

Maybe this will help...

This is from another anabaptist church but think is close.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Hutterites

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:08 am

natman wrote:I applaud their willingness to try to live communally (communistically - no personal property, shared resources and bank account). However, apart from a small group in Acts, I do not think that this is the actual Biblical model that God intended, and without considerable shaming or "Banning" of those who slack from their shared duties, is bound to failure.

I am not sure how to interpret their "separation of Church and state" statement. I believe that America's founding fathers intended that government not interfere with the various practices of ("Christian") religion, but that Christianity was to direct and have an affect on government in order that it be moral and acceptable to God, such that He would bless us. And, as properly enacted Christianity should reduce the burden on government, government should encourage rather than discourage participation.

Nathan, in times and places where the Church is persecuted, having a support network is essential.
In India, a new Christian may be disowned by a Hindu family. The church has to provide new family, job opportunities, place to live. Similar story in Muslim lands.
Various Protestant groups had to "circle the wagons" until very recent years and many were forced off the continent of Europe entirely. One branch of my family barely escaped from France after the Edit of Nantes was revoked. The father stayed behind and was murdered by a mob, while his two sons made it to England and then America only by the grace of God.
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Re: Hutterites

Postby ezduzit » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:14 am

bn2bnude wrote:
natman wrote:I am not sure how to interpret their "separation of Church and state" statement. I believe that America's founding fathers intended that government not interfere with the various practices of ("Christian") religion, but that Christianity was to direct and have an affect on government in order that it be moral and acceptable to God, such that He would bless us. And, as properly enacted Christianity should reduce the burden on government, government should encourage rather than discourage participation.

Maybe this will help...

This is from another anabaptist church but think is close.


No offense intended but wonder what he says about this verse ?
Ez

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
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Re: Hutterites

Postby Ramblinman » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:19 am

ezduzit wrote:No offense intended but wonder what he says about this verse ?
Ez

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


Then what of the vow of the Nazirite? Is their long hair worn to shame them or for God's glory?
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Re: Hutterites

Postby ezduzit » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:51 am

Ramblinman wrote:
ezduzit wrote:No offense intended but wonder what he says about this verse ?
Ez

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


Then what of the vow of the Nazirite? Is their long hair worn to shame them or for God's glory?


Has this man taken a vow of the Nazarite? me thinks not , his hair length is between him and The Lord............
Ez

http://www.learnthebible.org/daily_portion_0185.htm
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Re: Hutterites

Postby bn2bnude » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:11 am

ezduzit wrote:No offense intended but wonder what he says about this verse ?
Ez

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

Here is your answer... Indirect but directly from him.
In keeping with the way David related to God’s Law, Jesus challenges the Pharisees to pay attention to the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law, to hear the heart of the lawgiver rather than delighting in the details of the law itself. It’s true – David also delighted in God’s law. He read and meditated on it. But that was never enough. God’s law allowed him to get to know God’s heart. Then, when faced with an ethical challenge, David didn’t have to find chapter and verse to get God’s rule on the matter. Instead he simply followed God’s heart which he got to know through the Scriptures and the Spirit. David had the confidence to make wise decisions that went behind the details of scripture because he was immersed in Scripture. And in at least one instance, David shows that sometimes it is appropriate to break the rules in the name of the love of God and God’s people. It is interesting to note that Jesus could have called himself the son of Abraham, or the son of Moses, but he chose instead to refer to himself as the son of David, the one after God’s owns heart.

Next Jesus points out to the Pharisees that God even embeds within the Levitical Law itself a measure of contradiction that should serve to frustrate letter-keeping legalism. For instance, the same God who commands that no one should work on the Sabbath then commands the priests to work on the Sabbath. So, using Scripture to make his point, Jesus opposes all attempts to use the Bible as a legalistic rule book for life. Instead, we read the Bible to get to know the heart of the Father, and then we follow his heart with discerning wisdom and grace.

What we are seeing here is a clear Jesus hermeneutic—a Jesus way of reading and applying our Bibles. The principle rules over the precept, the spirit over the letter. And this is what we as Brethren in Christ have wrestled with over the years. Should women wear head coverings? Should men have long hair? Should modest dress look a certain way? Should women be allowed to lead and teach? Should we wash one another’s feet literally or metaphorically? Should we greet one another with a holy kiss or a healthy hug? We are always asking the important question that Jesus encourages us to ask – what is the principle embedded within the precept and how do we live these principles out in our time and our space?

Christ’s teaching in the Sermon on the Mount supports this approach to Scripture. Jesus teaches us that the law against murder is not just about physically taking a life, but about the inner issues of anger and disrespect that have the power to take emotional and spiritual life. Likewise Jesus says that the law against adultery is broken internally first, through willful lust. Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but he did come to fulfill it. And so we turn to him to see how the principles of the law should be lived out in a righteous life.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



If I speak with the tongues of men and angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (1 Cor 13:1)
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Re: Hutterites

Postby Petros » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:24 am

And of course Paul is working with the available cultural milieu. Talking to a culture where the norm is men short women long, he appeals to that as the OBVIOUS support for his point. There are cultures - were cultures - where MF = long, others where MF = short, still others where M= long F = short.

He is not laying out a universal rule for hair styles. Note that his schema drops a bomb on Jewish practice - and yet he is solid though heretical Jew.
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Re: Hutterites

Postby jochanaan » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:51 am

If he's a Nazarite, why isn't his beard as long as his hair? :)

Seriously, I've let my hair and beard grow for about ten years now, not because of any vow, but simply because it's easier and cheaper! Perhaps I'm also making a statement that the way God programmed my body is all right with me. My hair and beard seem to have grown to a certain length and no further, and that length is quite manageable.
You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
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Re: Hutterites

Postby Ramblinman » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:37 pm

ezduzit wrote:
Ramblinman wrote:
ezduzit wrote:No offense intended but wonder what he says about this verse ?
Ez

1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


Then what of the vow of the Nazirite? Is their long hair worn to shame them or for God's glory?


Has this man taken a vow of the Nazarite? me thinks not , his hair length is between him and The Lord............
Ez

http://www.learnthebible.org/daily_portion_0185.htm


I did not say that he had taken such a vow. But it is instructive that God would create an order of men who do not cut their hair. It shows two things: that even in those days, men tended to cut their hair, at least shorter than women. If no one cut their hair, then the Nazirite long hair would not be exceptional, would not stand out in a crowd.
But there is a second inference starting from a principle: God does not command people to violate his will.
If he commanded an entire order to wear their hair long, it would mean that short hair on a main is not so important to God that he would override regional custom nor individual choice. The children of Israel were instructed not to cross dress, but the world and its cultures are diverse. It is possible to dress as men usually do in my own culture yet seem to be out of compliance with someone from another culture. (Scottish kilt for instance).
I cannot comply with every culture on earth. I am doing well to stay out of trouble with my own culture.
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Re: Hutterites

Postby prairieboy » Sun May 18, 2014 7:55 pm

Maybe he has read Romans 14, in particular verse 10.

As to the Hutterites - In my opinion they began as true believers. At present I believe that some of them are true believers, but many are caught up in the form of religion, and it becomes legalistic, more cultural and economic than Christian.
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