Death sentence for being a Christian

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Re: Death sentence for being a Christian

Postby natman » Tue May 20, 2014 12:36 pm

Bare_Truth wrote:
natman wrote: ........Nowhere do I see God the Father nor God the Son instructing us to take human lives, ....... merely to "defend the faith".....
So what do you do with:
Exodus 22:
18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

or
Deut 13: 2-
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams,....., saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
.......
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God,
......
6 ¶If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods,
.......
neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death,
.........
13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods,
........
15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

Not all of those cases involved child sacrifice.
Mostly they involved apostasy but Exodus 22:19 is bestiality which is contrary to the practices God specified for people of his religion but is not necessarily part of any other religion.


They all involved "idolatry", which is what is at the core of "child sacrifice" and which is even more grievous than murder (the destruction of the image of God) because they are the replacement of the actual God with a false god. These commands were very specific, to a specific group of people at a specific time in history and for a specific purpose (to cleanse the Promised Land), and they are all direct edicts from God, not from some man or group that assumes to be THE leadership of the Church.

bn2bnude wrote:I've seen a lot of hatred from pulpits directed towards brothers and sisters from other denominations. All in the name of being "right".

So, maybe not physical murder but if we listen to the words of Jesus, just as bad.


I agree, and I believe that it is equally WRONG, particularly if what they disagree about are secondary issues such as "baptism", "transubstantiation", "the papacy", "traditions" etc., all of which can be well debated Scripturally.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Re: Death sentence for being a Christian

Postby Bare_Truth » Wed May 21, 2014 12:23 am

natman wrote: ........Nowhere do I see God the Father nor God the Son instructing us to take human lives, ....... merely to "defend the faith".....
...
Natman wrote:They all involved "idolatry", which is what is at the core of "child sacrifice" ....


But I see no verification of your assertion that the scriptural quotes I cited "all involved child sacrifice" (which I might add is just another iteration of "we have to do it for the children's sake")

I used to live across the street from a witch (actually a wiccan couple) They were really quite open about their religion and there was nothing about child or even animal sacrifice in it neither was there any assertion of child sacrifice in the cases I cited. Even if there was, clearly God was instructing the taking of human lives because of deviations or outright replacement of "the faith" aka, "defense of the faith". I could easier accept an argument of "That was then, God wants us to do it different now." than to argue that God never authorized the taking of life to "defend the faith".
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Re: Death sentence for being a Christian

Postby ezduzit » Wed May 21, 2014 6:57 am

I believe there is a line drawn between the OT (Law) vs the NT (Grace)...........
As NT believers we do not do away with witches etc, etc. in the "name " of our faith .
Ez
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Re: Death sentence for being a Christian

Postby bn2bnude » Wed May 21, 2014 7:29 am

ezduzit wrote:I believe there is a line drawn between the OT (Law) vs the NT (Grace)...........
As NT believers we do not do away with witches etc, etc. in the "name " of our faith .
Ez

You seem to be correct, at least in todays society.

It didn't stop many in the middle ages dealing with plague or in Salem, MA. Maybe that is just a recent thing.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1 NLT)



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Re: Death sentence for being a Christian

Postby natman » Wed May 21, 2014 7:45 am

Bare_Truth wrote:
natman wrote: ........Nowhere do I see God the Father nor God the Son instructing us to take human lives, ....... merely to "defend the faith".....
...
Natman wrote:They all involved "idolatry", which is what is at the core of "child sacrifice" ....


But I see no verification of your assertion that the scriptural quotes I cited "all involved child sacrifice" (which I might add is just another iteration of "we have to do it for the children's sake")


Bare_Truth,

I did not say that they all involved "child sacrifice". I said that they all involved "idolatry". Child sacrifice was only one of many symptoms of idolatry. I also said that God had a specific application, in this case, clearing and cleansing the Promised Land in preparation for His People, setting them and the land apart as "Holy".

I think where we are confusing each other is in the definition of the term "defend the faith". Apart from clearing the Promised Land, I do not see where God is instructing His people, Jews or Christians, to go out into the world and kill people who do not believe or practice EXACTLY as they do. Even after the Promised Land was cleared, God instructed His people to take care of the "travelers" through their land. He did not say to care for them ONLY if they are Jews. Similarly, Christ instructed His followers to "love their neighbors" and pointed out that their neighbors were even those who did not believe or practice their faith EXACTLY as they did (the Samaritans). He took it even further to say that we are to "love our enemies" as well. That would include those who not only believe and practice differently, but those who are diametrically opposed to their faith in the one True God.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: Death sentence for being a Christian

Postby Petros » Wed May 21, 2014 8:25 am

ezduzit wrote:I believe there is a line drawn between the OT (Law) vs the NT (Grace)...........
As NT believers we do not do away with witches etc, etc. in the "name " of our faith .
Ez


Did not stop my Salem ancestor from throwing Herself's Salem ancestor in jail where he died. It is true that Jesus tells us we need to surpass the Pharisees in God's way, but it is also not clearly a general principal of the Law to whack deviants.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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