Freedom of Speech

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Freedom of Speech

Postby natman » Wed May 14, 2014 10:52 am

Pastor Destroys the Idea of the Separation of Church and State
http://eaglerising.com/6131/dr-voddie-b ... dUXmOiK.99

By Onan Coca/13 May 2014



Dr. Voddie Baucham is a brilliant thinker and a passionate man of God. He is the Pastor of Preaching at Grace Family Baptist Church in Spring, Texas, just outside of Houston. Dr. Baucham gave a wonderful interview to the folks at “Speak Up Church” about this idea of the separation of Church and State that seems to permeate our American culture today. Sadly, he notes that it has also infected our church culture as well as modern American culture.

There is a lot of great stuff in here.

“You talk to people about Pastor’s addressing political issues and their immediate response is ‘the Church doesn’t have any business in the political arena.’ That’s a very new idea. You know anything about the history of America, the history of the church, you know that that’s not been the case. We’ve always understood that as our culture faced these issues, that it's the church that is uniquely equipped to face these issues. But there’s an irony there, I believe, in our context. And that irony is, Pastors stand up now in their pulpits, in our culture, and spout psychology left and right and nobody ever says, ‘Hey, this is not the place for psychology.’ Why do we believe it’s not the place for politics but that it’s okay for it to be the place for psychology? I’ll tell you why. Because the other side has been effective in causing us to believe in this mythological separation of Church and State that somehow makes it inappropriate for the church to have any say in what it is that the State does or thinks. Or how the State acts.”

“If the church is not going to speak to the issue of truth and be a herald for the state and point the state to where truth is – then what’s the only other alternative? The only other alternative is that man finds the truth in himself or in his courts. That’s an untenable position. We cannot allow it.”

“The Bible does speak to every issue in life, and our political issues are informed by our theology. There’s no such thing as a politician or a political issue that is not theological. You cannot do politics without theology! So we have to break this false dichotomy.”

“Let me put it this way. Nobody would have 50 or 100 years ago, shied away from dealing with homosexuality in those passages in the Bible that deal with homosexuality. Nobody would have shied away from dealing with marriage in those passages that deal with marriage. And nobody would have said that those passages were somehow political. Well now all of a sudden, the government comes in, walks onto our territory, and because the government has walked onto our territory, we now say that it belongs to them… They don’t get to do that! They cannot come into our territory and then say that we’re wrong for speaking about it. These issues are not just political issues, these issues are Biblical, theological issues, but beyond that, even issues that are political issues have Biblical and theological underpinnings.”

Dr. Baucham gets right to the heart of several different issues inside of the skewed perspective on separation of Church and State. Our Founders viewed the separation as a way to protect the church from the government – yet today, it is used as a tool to diminish the role of the church in government. That was never the intent. For the church not to be involved in politics means that Christians must become a subjected people – because our political beliefs are all born out of our religious beliefs. They are inseparable!

Therefore, we must not be cowed by the secular progressive left. Our rights as Americans demand that we speak out for what we believe and that we fight to improve our nation… even if our views are not culturally popular.
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

Get exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby natman » Wed May 14, 2014 10:54 am

When I took over this site, cnvillage.org, I decided not register as a 501(c)(3) organization exclusively because of the limits such registration places on freedom of speech and expression in exchange for saving a few dollars. I would rather pay whatever taxes are owed and not have to constantly look over our shoulders or squelch our members' ability and desire to speak out about the actions or intents of any "political" party, person, candidate or issue. Sometimes I believe it is necessary to call out such entities when they stand to negatively affect our freedom to express our religion or to enjoy the simple pleasures of "being" that which God has created us to be, and to point to those entities which we believe will work to preserve, encourage and enhance such freedoms.
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Nathan Powers

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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby jochanaan » Wed May 14, 2014 11:55 am

As I understand the idea of the "wall of separation between church and state," it refers to the churches actually doing the governing, and also to the government interfering in church business (unless that business involves violent rampages or the like). To extend this to an idea that churches or church leaders should never talk about or go into politics is as absurd as to mandate government officials never to mention God when they themselves believe in Him. Both ideas are completely impracticable in a free society.
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby ezduzit » Wed May 14, 2014 1:46 pm

:like:

Ez
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby natman » Wed May 14, 2014 2:24 pm

jochanaan wrote:To extend this to an idea that churches or church leaders should never talk about or go into politics is as absurd as to mandate government officials never to mention God when they themselves believe in Him. Both ideas are completely impracticable in a free society.


I agree. However, THAT is EXACTLY what happened in 1954 when then senator Lyndon Johnson introduced the Revenue Act of 1954. That is when churches were first limited in their discussion and support for political candidates and issues. :dislike:
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby pugiofidei » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:31 pm

A sundering of "church" from "state" is beyond anyone's cunning. If members of churches were barred from citizenship, and citizens barred from becoming church members, even this would fall short of true separation. Laws, written or customary, would have to be in place which mentioned churches and the state together, by which mentioning they would breach themselves. Even the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, as helpful as it has been, is not, shall we say, good flitcræft.
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby ezduzit » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:32 pm

We Christians only have ourselves to blame for the condition of our nation.......
Ez

Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
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Re: Freedom of Speech

Postby Petros » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:33 am

There is of course the by now venerable Mennonite position in which the believer opts out of things like military and civil office as incompatible with the Decalogue. Part of why they received serious persecution from the mainline reformers whose ties to local princes and whose political activities were significant.

Myself, I do not see or say that a Christian may not be called into politics or a politician may not be brought into the kingdom - what price them publicans and the likes of Nicodemus? But it does seem we need to keep one eye on the dictum that all power corrupts.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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