Change still being needed

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Change still being needed

Postby vycna » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:14 pm

I think being a Christian believer means there is to be a life that goes way beyond how those generally known as Christian live. Spiritual growth needs to go in that direction. We should become like Christ, he was modeling for us how we who are his followers are to live. It includes what he taught for us. So we should show love to any others, not doing things for selfish gain and being contentious with any others, or saying things about others to still other people. We should be caring, making peace with others, being merciful, forgiving, and compassionate, not doing things that cause harm. I do not think our Creator is limited in that, and we need that from God, and so we should do so, still not compromising with any sins, and such virtues that should be shown should not be with limitation that we might choose for our own preference, when there is no worthy reason for it to be limited.

There is a lot of cruelty around, we who are believers and are in Christ are to be a force for good leading in the other direction.
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby JimShedd112 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:00 am

Well said vycna. Though I don't proclaim myself a Christian the principles you've outlined are appropriate for all to live by and should certainly be the standard for anyone who proclaims themself Christian.

Jim Shedd
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby Ramblinman » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:23 am

JimShedd112 wrote:Well said vycna. Though I don't proclaim myself a Christian the principles you've outlined are appropriate for all to live by and should certainly be the standard for anyone who proclaims themself Christian.

Jim Shedd

Jim, it seems to be a natural tendency of people to identify with a great teacher, but never truly act on the principles of the man (or God) they claim to follow.

Here's a short checklist I like to keep handy to remind myself how far I have yet to grow:

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby jochanaan » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:49 pm

vycna, have you read Watchman Nee's book The Normal Christian Life? It outlines a way of life that goes far beyond what most of us consider to be average or even attainable--and describes that life as "normal." :) (I need to read it again...)
You can live your life in fear--or you can live your life.
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby Petros » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:51 pm

The Watchman is not one of the lukewarm. Herself knows him better as I
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby prairieboy » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:53 am

I like the way that Paul stated it, "I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me." That will cover all of it.
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby Petros » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:26 am

The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby nakedpreacher » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:11 am

I have not read Watchman Nee, but Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book The Cost Of Discipleship has a lot to say about following Christ in both his deeds and his words. Another is The Pursuit of God by RA Torrey, he says basically the same thing in a more accessible form. I am currently preaching a sermon series on the sermon on the mount. You want to talk about a humbling experience, Preach about the words of Christ and then realize that he did everything he said. WOW
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If, when we judged others, our real motive was to destroy evil; we should look for evil where it is certain to be found, and that is in our own hearts. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby DaveT » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:44 pm

It has been sad to see so many from early church times on through to our time, who take on them the name of Christ but do so only as a white cover for the blackest of character representing satan, It is the work of the Holy Spirit on the heart that will develop in us the likeness of Christ. But we need to desire that change and ask Him to do it. But to love like Christ loved also means we partake of His sorrow. But When all is finished we get to share in His joy forever. As He said "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled"

It's a wonderful promise.
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby vycna » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:15 pm

Thank you, both jochanaan and nakedpreacher, for the book suggestions, these interest me. I believe we who truly believe need to see this through as far as it will take us. Why should we limit virtuous living for godliness, desiring to be pleasing to God in light of God's perfect will? And so I know to seek what is in the interest of any other people, it is desirable for any and all to know to come to God. I also am now turning to really live vegan, it is a related issue: http://www.jesuspeopleforanimals.com/wh ... r-animals/ Was Jesus doing that? I can't say with any authority. Some use scripture passages showing that he would have fish meat, but aside with miracles of multiplication, which don't show that it was his food, or that he had animals suffering through that, it isn't conclusive to me that what fish meat was made available he really was having. But I can be pretty sure, as animal suffering is not what is in the prophetic vision, and not what would have been in the perfect design from God's will for creation with this world, without death when there was no sin, Jesus who I know by such compassion would not take part in the consumerism that is with all the abuse in the industries using animals, Jesus then would lead away from taking part in the demand for that.

It is the same sort of argument that would be made against all injustice in society, including the tolerance in society for that business using abortion of the unborn, he would not stand for that.
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby jochanaan » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:36 pm

Hmmm...Daniel and his three friends resolved to go vegan rather than take a chance on eating non-kosher food. (The Hebrew word for what they ate is zeroa, literally "seed," probably indicating fruits, grains and nuts in addition to green vegetables.) And factory farms are responsible for much, much animal suffering, aside from our eventual killing of the animals. "Food" for thought... :)
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Re: Change still being needed

Postby Petros » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:10 pm

A major problem [ignoring the giant bedbug's principle of food-chain reciprocity] is, what line do we draw where? My brother in the business was able to point to places in the continuum of creatures where those in his field who are willing to stand up and be counted as part of a "CONSENSUS" [ah, how well I know how consensus works and how deeply rooted it is in the arbitrary] will mark boundaries between humans and non, mammals and others, animals and the rest , life and mere organic complexes.

We think we are intelligent [and Descartes argues that proves we are]. We do not, can not know however much we assume that dolphins and bonobos and ravens are not intelligent - though we are fairly safe in saying they do not have human intelligence. We know we feel pain, and at THIS point most of us will concede that the Batwa and the unborn and vertebrates and perhaps even planaria feel pain [though we have not always and everywhere been agreed on that, and they do not all feel pain precisely as we do]. But dare we assume that plants do not feel pain, when we can show that they react to touch aznd mutilation, and some claim they can see auric changes or hear cries of - something- when a plant is harmed?

Pause for recollection.


Read that into the meeting. There are some sophisticated points in there.

If we are not to ingest that which feels pain, and if we cannot be sarten sure that there are living things that cannot suffer, we are forced to live off carrion [making sure we damage no bacteria], eat only synthetic foods [a job for DuPont], pray for manna, or figure out - fast - how to do photosynthesis. But can we live even dining off that which is harmless and not impact other life? Not bleddy likely. And if we impact them, some will feel pain. I have felt pain when things impacted me.

It is fine to eschew cruelty. And it may be argued that the surgeon's butcher shop is not cruel even though pain and physical damage are caused. It is fine to eat nothing but plants - or nothing but animals, for that matter - or to fast [a man my friend Aram knew and admired recently died apparently from fasting too ardently].

But the Christ - though enlightened - is not the Buddha, and even Gautama cannot live without impacting other life. I do not see that - NOT being God - we can practically use pain as a criterion for deciding how to fuel our bodies.

But
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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