Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby MoNatureMan » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:58 am

There is an old phrase 'hate the sin and love the sinner'. That is a hard thing to do. Even harder to communicate to others (especially the sinner).

Should Bible believing Christians support and help protect Biblical Traditional Marriage in our society? I think so.
Should we refuse to accept non-Biblical relationships as marriage? I think so.
Will our support for the Biblical Traditional marriage and family be seen by some to be discriminatory, narrow-minded, and hateful? Probably so.

Of course we need to communicate with and even be friends of people that are 'living in sin'. But we also need to stand for what Scripture says and what we believe. It may appear hurtful to some, but at the same time it will be an inspiration to others.

We need to be proud (in the good way) to be a Christian. We need to shout it from the house tops. How Great is our God who has forgiven all of our sin. How He offers glorious life eternal to all that turn to Him.

Put not the Light of the Gospel under a basket
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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby Petros » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:56 am

The nonChristian is often at least as quick to condemn those who do what he condemns, and when he condemns our condemnation of what we condemn.

There is a fine line between touch not and judge not - and only discernment from the Spirit can really gewt us to the right place.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby MoNatureMan » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:03 am

True,
We need to guide our acts and conversation according to the Word and Spirit of Him. But that does not mean we will not an offense to those of this world. Continue to follow His Word and Spirit no matter what the cost in this world.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like pain or persecution, but our brothers and sisters in many countries are giving their life for Christ (literally). We must follow Him to the best of our ability, no matter what the cost.

In Him
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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby Petros » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:33 am

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

We do not seek to avoid being condemned by those on the lookout for green monkeys - we do seek to avoid codemnat ion from the one person who counts.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby natman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:14 pm

Getting back to the OP,

Bare_Truth wrote:Ramblingman's statment was:
A nudist couple who are AANR or Naturist Society members, active in naturist camps as a family and not mixed up in some controlling religious system are not likely to be arrested and have it stick, nor fired and shunned by everyone they know. Although some of the hardshell Baptists are as condemning, legalistic, judgemental.
(I added he color.) I suppose the accuracy of the red part could be argued, but please note that he did say "likely"

It is however the blue part that concerns me, because:
-- The AANR now has a "non-discrimination based on gender orientation" clause
-- The naturist Society (TNS) has had very strong homosexual involvement from its inception
-- Many camps resorts clubs, have adopted directly or indirectly "non-gender orientation discrimination" policies
-- Any religious organization that insists on "No Homosexuality !" is likely to be classified as "controlling"


Bare_Truth wrote:Why should we allow society to impugn and doubt the sincerity of such persons with respect to chaste non-sexual nudity just because they do not join social organizations that promote social fraternization with the homosexual community.


The only response I could muster would possibly be "resources".

At first blush, I pondered why membership in such groups as the AANR or TNS would be beneficial in preventing arrest or prosecution when one's naturist activities are uncovered. One of the things that I thought that MIGHT help is the fact that these organizations perform background checks on potential members to insure that they are not on any "sex offender" list and either suspend or cancel memberships when it is determined that the member has been found guilty. (I do not know what if any actions occur if a member is merely "accused". Is suspension automatically applied pending an outcome?) Also, the AANR and TNS have a history of being able to defend their members against accusations of sexual impropriety and indecent exposure etc.

When I had read of the TNS' homosexual involvement and the AANR's non-discrimination clause, I have often wondered if it were time to establish a Christian Association for Nude/Naturist Recreation (CANR) which would mirror AANR in terms of background checks, legal support and resort/venue endorsement, but with a stronger focus on "Family-Friendly" and "Biblically-Focused" naturism.

As far as allowing "homosexuals" as members, I think it needs to be handled as I would hope the Church would handle them; just like any other sinner. That is to say that if the Church did not allow sinners into their doors, all of the pews and pulpits would be completely completely EMPTY. However, that gets us in the doors. We may become members of the '"church" (small "c"), however, in order to become members of "The Church" (the Body of Christ), we should be required to acknowledge and repent of our sin and then not "practice" or "revel" in it any further. In other words, if a thief comes into a relationship with Christ, confesses and repents of his thievery, he will no longer steal nor brag about stealing things. If a practicing (key word) homosexual comes into a relationship with Christ, confesses and repents of his past actions, he will no longer act on his homosexual desired (if he still has them) and will not openly proclaim them.


The AANR lists their "Principles and Standards"
AANR Principle and Standard wrote:We recognize the essential wholesomeness of the human body and that life is enhanced by the naturalness of social nudity. From exercise to relaxation, physical health and mental well being are enriched through social nude recreation. We have the right to practice social nudity in appropriate settings, provided we do not infringe on the rights of others.

AANR's standards state:

AANR welcomes all people willing to conform to its principles and standards, regardless of age, gender, marital status, religious beliefs, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.

Any agreement to be photographed or to permit any public use of name, address or occupation shall not be a requirement of membership

We reject categorically any attempt to associate the good name and reputation of family social nudism, of any AANR-chartered club, or of the American Association for Nude Recreation, with the sexual exploitation of the human body. We further reject any use of the terms nudist, nudism, family social nudism, or American Association for Nude Recreation, as a cover for sexually-exploitive purposes, commercial or otherwise.


At first glance, this sounds good. However it does not go far enough into stating what activities are acceptable, particularly on the open grounds of a member resort.

They merely talk about rejecting any form of "sexual exploitation". So, if two homosexuals decide to have sex on the pool deck, as long as one is not feeling "exploited", then I guess that is okay.

Instead, they should expressly prohibit ANY for of sexuality, regardless of "sexual orientation", on the open grounds or public areas of a resort in order to allow resort.

The bottom line is that if you, your wife, your husband or your "partner" want to have sex... "GET A ROOM".
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby Ramblinman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:25 pm

Nathan,

For several Sundays I visited a church that made a special effort to minister to homosexual men. It made no effort to compromise their strong biblical stance against homosexual behavior.

Still the Sunday morning Bible class had a large number of men in varying stages of repentance and recovery from homosexuality. For someone who is not used to meeting people caught up in this sin, it is very disturbing, a tragic perversion of God's plan. Some of the guys were macho-appearing, but some obviously effeminate. It really creeped me out. I know that they need to be in church rather than in some bar.

I guess we could say the same about churches with ministries to any kind of sexual sin or drug abuse, the mentally ill.
All sin is deadly, but the Bible does say that sexual sin is particularly damaging.

Back to resorts/campgrounds:
I can imagine a situation where a gay couple might stop well short of poolside sex, but engage in hand-holding, sitting in a lover's lap, cuddling, romantic embraces in a way that would leave no room for doubt that they are attracted to one another. I can't blame a resort or campground for wanting to discourage people like this from even attending. It does set a bad example for kids. Some might turn out gay anyway, but some kids might grow up straight if they are not exposed to this. Why should everyone try to pretend that it is normal and it has no consequences for our young folks?
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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby natman » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:14 pm

Ramblinman wrote:For several Sundays I visited a church that made a special effort to minister to homosexual men. It made no effort to compromise their strong biblical stance against homosexual behavior.

Still the Sunday morning Bible class had a large number of men in varying stages of repentance and recovery from homosexuality. For someone who is not used to meeting people caught up in this sin, it is very disturbing, a tragic perversion of God's plan. Some of the guys were macho-appearing, but some obviously effeminate. It really creeped me out. I know that they need to be in church rather than in some bar.


Our church has no such outreach for homosexuals (that I know of), so I have never seen this type of ministry played out personally.

We DO have outreaches for alcoholics, drug abusers and divorcees (not that being divorced is always sin, however, it is usually the result of SOMEONE's sin).

Ramblinman wrote:I guess we could say the same about churches with ministries to any kind of sexual sin or drug abuse, the mentally ill.
All sin is deadly, but the Bible does say that sexual sin is particularly damaging.


I agree. The Bible says that while most sin damages the soul, sexual sin damages the body. (1 Cor 6:18)

Ramblinman wrote:Back to resorts/campgrounds:
I can imagine a situation where a gay couple might stop well short of poolside sex, but engage in hand-holding, sitting in a lover's lap, cuddling, romantic embraces in a way that would leave no room for doubt that they are attracted to one another. I can't blame a resort or campground for wanting to discourage people like this from even attending. It does set a bad example for kids. Some might turn out gay anyway, but some kids might grow up straight if they are not exposed to this. Why should everyone try to pretend that it is normal and it has no consequences for our young folks?


I thought about that too. I suppose that "approved" or "endorsed" resorts should also not allow homosexual shows of affection beyond a congenial hug. No homosexual hand holding, kissing, deep caresses, etc..
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby JimShedd112 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:34 pm

If homosexual displays of affection are to be discouraged should those same innocent displays of affection not be discouraged, if no banned, among heterosexual couples as well?

While I don't want to see such displays between men in particular why are typical affectionate displays to be discouraged among anyone, clothed or nude? I wrote a letter to the editor at AANR on this very topic two issues ago. My letter was published in The Bulletin by the way.

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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby Petros » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Of course much depends on the ratio nature to nurture in reality as opposed to the popular [or unpopular] understanding. If the major factor be in fact nature, observing ducks waddling will be unlikely to persuade turkeys to waddle.

There is also the fact - physically displayed affection varies greatly from culture to culture. and I and my friend / colleague Colin, he Anglic I Yank, who in our version od Anglophone culture meet and talk coolly with minimum facial expression and no physical contact beyond a brief handshake if that, raised in another culture might interact with physical and verbal exprsssions which an American of my generation might find suspect.
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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby natman » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:23 am

JimShedd112 wrote:If homosexual displays of affection are to be discouraged should those same innocent displays of affection not be discouraged, if no banned, among heterosexual couples as well?


If it is for the purpose of attaining approval from the Christian Association of Naturist Recreation (CANR), then I would say, "No".

The Bible speaks positively about courtship between one man and one woman and blesses affection between husband and wife. However, even heterosexual public displays of affection should be "innocent", limited to holding hands, a light kiss, or congenial hug. Anything beyond that should probably be in a private setting.

JimShedd112 wrote:I wrote a letter to the editor at AANR on this very topic two issues ago. My letter was published in The Bulletin by the way.


Is it something you can publish here?
SON-cerely,
Nathan Powers

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Re: Why do we allow society to practise this discrimination

Postby JimShedd112 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:50 am

I no longer have the email which was published in The Bulletin.

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