Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Nudism raises lots of questions about body care. It is a healthy way of life in many ways, but it also presents certain concerns that we don't face when clothed. Here you can ask all your questions, and post about the health benefits of nudism / naturism.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

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Re: Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Postby baresoul » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:18 pm

Petros wrote:
I already choose eating in the established healthiest way


I am not into critiquing and arguing - but querying and discussing is the name of my game. So:
eating in the established healthiest way
.

A, what is that?
B. is it healthiest for each individual - we are a various species?
C. In what sense is it established?
D. Who established it?
E. Where is it documented, explained, researched and compared?


See the following for answering A, B, and C. The studies are many, the China Study is the largest ever. Quoting is from The Forks Over Knives Plan, which I first copied at length by hand from the book, authored by doctors, not knowing where to find the text online. There are many conclusive studies behind this, and lives have been saved with it.

Americans are sick, tired, and overmedicated. Every fifty-three seconds someone in the United States dies of heart disease, which, as the nation's number one killer, claims about 600,000 lives per year. Cancer, now the second leading cause of death, takes the lives of more than 1500 people per day. Meanwhile, nearly 10 percent of the population has diabetes; and our children are getting sicker, as indicated by the startling fact that obesity has more than doubled in children and tripled in adolescents in the past thirty years. We have turned to the medical system for help, and it has delivered medication in a big way: Nearly 70 percent of Americans are on at least one prescription drug, more than 50 percent take two, and 20 percent are on five or more prescription drugs. Despite the billions of dollars being spent on pharmaceuticals, the needle almost never moves downward on the rates of chronic disease, and the people still feel lousy and sick.

Health statistics aren't just about numbers on a page or data on a statistician's ledger. These are our mothers, fathers, siblings, and children. These are our friends. The health crisis is taking a real toll on our daily lives, profoundly affecting the personal happiness and productivity of millions of us every single day.

There is good news, though. Research is revealing with greater certainty that we understand the main cause of this epidemic: an American diet that derives more than 90 percent of what we eat from animal-based and processed foods. Understanding the cause means there's hope! The research tells us that if we change to an entirely different way of eating, we can dramatically alter our health destiny.

Modern pioneers like T. Colin Cambell, PhD; Caldwell Esselstyn, MD; Dean Ornish, MD; John McDougall, MD; Neal Barnard, MD; and others are leading the charge. Thanks to these doctors and researchers, along with an emerging body of scientific evidence from all corners, we now know that a whole-food, plant-based diet is more powerful at preventing and treating chronic diseases than any medication or procedure. We are so convinced by the evidence that we believe if this diet came in a pill, it would be heralded on the front pages of newspapers and magazines around the world for its effectiveness.

There is a movement under way as hundreds of thousands of people, if not more, are trying the whole-food, plant-based lifestyle for themselves and finding great success. We have personally seen remarkable results in our own medical practice, not to mention experienced it in our own lives. Here are just a few of the significant life-changing results you may expect:

Prevent and reverse the leading chronic ailments. A whole-food, plant-based diet can prevent, halt, and even reverse heart disease and diabetes. Other diseases that are also positively impacted by this type of diet include: high cholesterol, high blood pressure, obesity, and overall mortality. Cancer is also significantly affected by this diet. In fact, the foods that make up this diet are the exact same foods that were recommended in the first "surviving cancer" dietary recommendations. There is also evidence that a plant-based diet may reduce the risk of diverticular disease, gallstones, rheumatoid arthritis, gout, and kidney disease. Furthermore, after switching to a plant-based diet, people routinely report experiencing or seeing in others improvements in a range of ailments, including osteoporosis, arthritis, headaches, acne, asthma, sexual dysfunction, reflux, lupus, inflammatory bowel disease, constipation, irritable bowel syndrome, dementia, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, infertility, insomnia, and sleep apnea. They even find themselves experiencing fewer or less intense colds, viruses, and allergies.

Reach your ideal weight. Our friend Doug Lisle likes to point out that humans and their domesticated pets are the only earthly creatures that suffer from being overweight and obese ... in spite of the fact that we're also the only creatures who practice portion control! Why is this the case? It's simple. All the other animals on earth are eating foods that are appropriate for their species. If we also eat foods that are appropriate for our species -- whole, plant-based foods -- then we, too, will be able to eat without portion control and will naturally reach a comfortable weight.

Improve mental clarity Eating a whole-food, plant-based diet improves cognitive function and protects against dementia and Alzheimer's disease. Most people experience greater clarity of thought, improved ability to concentrate, and better memory.

Experience only positive effects, not "side effects". Perhaps you would choose to transition to a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease or reduce your diabetes medications, but now you could see that you would welcome into your life an abundance of positive effects. These can include better mood, sounder sleep, improved bowel function, and more vibrant skin. You will have more energy to do the things you love, like playing with your children or grandchildren, biking, gardening, walking, swimming. You may even want to exercise more. By contrast, as we'll discuss more, medical procedures and medications can have all sorts of major unintended negative consequences.

Have a sense of well-being and empowerment. You are in control of your health. You do not have to settle for compromised health or believe that you are destined to succumb to chronic disease. You can live with less fear that a heart attack can happen at any time or that you will be struck by the same chronic ailment from which other members of your family have suffered.

Save time and money. Whether you have health insurance or not, you will likely have to pay out of pocket for at least some of your health care expenses if you are sick. Fewer trips to the doctor and fewer procedures and pills equal more time and money you can spend in other areas of your life.

The Forks Over Knives Plan, pages 15-18.

See also http://www.forksoverknives.com for enjoyable effective ways to change to such living that is healthier, besides the book.


Petros wrote:I will say only: as scholar and [correct sense] skeptic, I know research and researchers rather well.

For every reliable conclusion, there is an equally meritorious opposite conclusion.


It is how I thought it would be. You asked, but you would have been saying about the same thing no matter what evidence there would be to show for it. It didn't need to be asked. But I don't take it personally, I see what it is. Convincing research is asked for, but none would be accepted over personal conclusions. (I don't agree that is a skeptic in the correct sense.)

NudeDude92 wrote:Unfortunately this seems to be all too true. One thing that seems to be absolute is that the more we learn about the human body and how it functions, the more we find we have yet to learn. Diet, environment, activity level, genetics, all seem to play a role, and now it seems like it's a "one size fits one and only one" kind of deal. For example, my diet has been mostly omnivorous coupled with a steady level of moderate activity all day long. This has resulted in me staying 145 lbs all my life. On the other hand, my wife on the same diet with similar activity gained extra weight that she doesn't want or need. So some people might thrive on a plant-based diet, others (like me) more a fresh animal protein and greens diet works. The only thing I've seen that is completely true for the both of us is that sugars have been unkind to our bodies.
My conclusion is each individual needs to find out how their biology is affected by diet and exercise, and therefore the best they can take care of the only body God gives them on this side of eternity.
By the way, I do agree with the authors of the book cited by BareSoul. Processed food is just unhealthy. We've come to find out that the closer to fresh a food is, the healthier it tends to be. As such, the only real reason I buy hotdogs is so I can catch some fresh fish.


The studies are not all equal. If you read all that text from the doctors, there are the benefits claimed from their research that you would be challenged to show coming from any other way.. Sure, there would be food industry funded research that shows things to conclude contrary. But there are many studies, over the past century, including the by far most massive study ever, with which doctors such as those who authored that book, and the list of doctors cited, who have all saved patients lives with the change to this healthier way, all say they are thoroughly convinced.

New_Adventurer wrote:And of course, every scholar concludes with the statement that further research is necessary.


There is no claim from these doctors that more research is needed for the conclusions. But if more studies are wanted, go along with that, whoever still want to fund those. Are just the food industries' funded studies to be trusted?

each individual needs to find out how their biology is affected by diet and exercise


How has that worked for people through history? Did it for people in the studies? Nobody responding here saw the movie, made available to see with that, I can tell. You would not be saying the same things.

I find it interesting that this thread started with the topic of body acceptance, and then a few turned to argue against my position on something I only brought up elsewhere, which only has a little to do with the original topic.
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Re: Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Postby Petros » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:09 am

Petros wrote:
I will say only: as scholar and [correct sense] skeptic, I know research and researchers rather well.

For every reliable conclusion, there is an equally meritorious opposite conclusion.


It is how I thought it would be. You asked, but you would have been saying about the same thing no matter what evidence there would be to show for it. It didn't need to be asked. But I don't take it personally, I see what it is. Convincing research is asked for, but none would be accepted over personal conclusions. (I don't agree that is a skeptic in the correct sense.)


A little openmindedness, if you please. AS a skeptic in the correct sense - someone who examines all the evidence before drawing conclusions and pays attention to data more than arguments - it is true I would always say that about researchers as a class. If there is conclusive research, I can and do buy into it rejecting earlier assumptions - not personal copnclusions, I have NOT researched nutrition.

Think Thomas and the wound in the side - not doubting, but needing to see evidence before accepting. THAT is skepticism. The current preferred use "a skeptic is someone who believes differently from me" is a sad misuse of the word.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Postby baresoul » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:58 am

You didn't watch the movie, so I am sure you are not pursuing to look at all the evidence.
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Re: Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Postby Petros » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:27 am

La, la.

Item - NOBODY can possibly in one life on earth examine ALL the evidence.

Item - No movie can present all the evidence - nor all the arguments on either one side.

And I'm done. I am not what you think you see.
The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain
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Re: Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Postby RMOlson » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:20 pm

:fantastic: :blowkiss:
Petros wrote:La, la.

Item - NOBODY can possibly in one life on earth examine ALL the evidence.

Item - No movie can present all the evidence - nor all the arguments on either one side.

And I'm done. I am not what you think you see.
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Re: Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Postby baresoul » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:18 pm

I really wonder, why bring a question up (not involving the topic of the threads much) when not willing to look at any of the evidence offered to answer. Some skeptic.

Clearly no chance is given to hear the doctors, the studies, or anything of the movie. Just don't question it again when I claim there is the healthiest way of eating that I know about. The answer was provided.
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Re: Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Postby New_Adventurer » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:26 pm

This strip’s drifting reminds me of a line I saw on a bra fitting web site. It said always measure first, things change. My reaction was when you find a proper fitting bra, buy it. Its fit is for that brand, style, cut, fabrication, materials, and how you feel that day. My only direct experience is watching my two wives and their shopping experience. My wife has a drawer full of bras ranging from 34B to 36D, and they all fit and look the same under a sweater.

How does this relate to this strip? Your diet and your weight and fitness are specific to you. Your metabolism, activity, likes and dislikes, environment, and food avability are what dictate your diet. I have been to numerous diet seminars and training classes and realized few common principles and many wildly differing suggestions. Fats are bad, fats are good, meat protein is necessary, vegetable protein is all you need, carbohydrates make you fat, carbohydrates are what you need to stay slim, eat only three meals a day, eat many small meals a day, and so it goes. What do I eat? What my wife feeds me. Since our marriage eight years ago I have gone from 280 to 240 with a goal of 210. And if I can get to 190, she has hinted at joining me in some naturist activities. Now that is an incentive!

What worked for me is stupidly simple, do not eat as much. At a restaurant, when ordering the meal ask for a take-home box in the same breath, put half of the meal in the box first, and then eat what is left on the plate. Dinner and breakfast, simple as that.
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Re: Body Acceptance vs Encouraging Fitness

Postby baresoul » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:10 pm

That this thread drifted was not my intention though it certainly involved me. I first posted speaking closely to the subject, and stating my own problem. Unexpectedly, for having said I yet use the healthiest way of eating, a couple of other members suddenly wanted to argue about that one statement, with one accusing my way of communicating in other places. I don't like being involved in what discussion goes off topic from body acceptance and fitness, the subject of the thread, I don't have to have others convinced. I do have basis for saying what is healthiest, that is enough to convince me. I don't need others to come along saying it isn't, after I show when asked so much for that, nor to be accused of how I communicate. The subject that I was responding to initially was enough, and the subject of the thread could have gone on from there.

New_Adventurer, I will say regarding your post, wouldn't it appeal to people with such issues that they could have a healthy way of eating, with absolutely no portion controls, and approach their ideal weight with that? I would think that would be appealing for many, but because change is not desirable to many, there is resistance I see to come to that or yet learn about it. Notice what is said for it in what I had quoted from the book relating to this in my earlier post.

For any not wanting to agree, I don't care enough to be arguing about it. Qualified doctors are convinced of this and authored that material, so an argument against it would be with the doctors and those patients whose lives they saved.
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